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    #16

    Apology accepted brotha...

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      #17

      i have to ask is it a written rule do not recommend an oral only cycle or do not do an oral cycle I am

      curios

      i have heard a lot of high level coaches like Dave palumbo Chris ace to say you can run a. Oral cycle and make  usually inrefrence to them being scared to pin. They also claim the shutdown is almost non existent on compounds such as anavar and winstrol.I used to think oral only was retarded but I can see it being done I may not agree with it but it is a valid cycle that out in the real world is being used. Is it more unsafe than a test cycle when tesutdoes Shit you down a lot harder than those. Anyways I enjoy your responses because your an intelligent bro and wouldn't mind hearing your "retort"

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        #18

        it is uncommon for guys to die competing back stage lol, yes it has happened but it's not a monthly thing. Mccarver went down from bronchitis and dehydrating his body combined nothing more nothing less my brother 

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          #19

          I wouldn't model myself after the original Mr. Blimpgut Dave Palumbo, lol

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            #20

            use eventually caught up to him but you know what he was one of the first 300lb lean bodybuilders and acommplished more in his physique then almost everyone on this site. He is very knowledgeable you don't take shorty genetics and create a body like that 

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              #21

              Originally posted by Dont_trip

              i have to ask is it a written rule do not recommend an oral only cycle or do not do an oral cycle I am

              curios

              i have heard a lot of high level coaches like Dave palumbo Chris ace to say you can run a. Oral cycle and make  usually inrefrence to them being scared to pin. They also claim the shutdown is almost non existent on compounds such as anavar and winstrol.I used to think oral only was retarded but I can see it being done I may not agree with it but it is a valid cycle that out in the real world is being used. Is it more unsafe than a test cycle when tesutdoes Shit you down a lot harder than those. Anyways I enjoy your responses because your an intelligent bro and wouldn't mind hearing your "retort"

               

              Many orals have strong sides, and as said before, it puts more stress to the liver and many users experience sexual disfunction due to lack of testosterone. (That's why it's recommended to always do TRT dosage or more of test.)

              Apart from that, testosterone is our natural hormone that not only makes it's sexual, muscular, fatty tissue release jobs, but is supposed to also have other activities (sorry, dont have bibliography about it but I've read it hundred times: eg: heart benefits, red blood cell count, CNS, increase in dopamine) that a modified version of it wouldn't do.

               

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                #22

                I'm not opposed to oral only cycles for females and weight restricted athletes that need to add strength and power wiih minimal or no weight gain. Anavar and winny being the choice of oral for weight restricted athletes. 

                Many pros who are getting stage ready run many taboo and unconventional compounds, but that doesn't make it right for the average joe looking for gains in the gym. Many pros run 2 19nors deca & tren together. They intentionally crash their estro. Many use nolva for e2. Do we recommend these things here? I have yet to see a guy come here, and say I'm a weight restricted athlete and run oral cycles, and this is why. Most come here wanting to run dbol or drol to gain 20lbs quick because they are scared to pin. Sorry bro but 6 weeks is max with any c17 no matter what your liver care protocol is. 6 weeks is not enough to attain sustainable muscle like 10 or 12 weeks of test is, so now you've placed much undue stress on your liver. The risk is not worth the reward.

                I'll give you two examples of guys I know that ran against traditional thinking. One says he had zero issues the other was hospitalized. 

                First was a guy who is a firefighter. He ran tren e as a standalone compound for a year straight. Dude was strong as a bull, and ripped like a greek god. Claims he had zero issues the entire time.

                The other was a weight restricted athlete who at 170lbs benched well over 400lbs. His drug of choice was winny. One morning he woke up and could not hardly bend his joints. He got so scared he went to the hospital, and was hospitalized for several days. The winny evidently dryed his joints out so bad that they seized.

                Are there cases for oral cycles? Absolutely. Is it ok for the average gym rat looking for some quick gains? Absolutely not.

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                  #23

                  Caused by intentionally crashing his e2 and the use of diuretics. E2 plays a key role in your immune system, so the bronchitis could also possibly be blamed on that too. We don't recommend to the average gym rat to crash e2 and use diuretics to look badass on the beach. Point being guys who compete or are weight restricted do very unconventional things that us regular gym rat joes do not and should not do.

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                    #24

                    +3 brotha

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                      #25

                      thanks for that bro

                      jist 1 last question you stayed it

                      was a rule was it a unwritten rule or is it technically a rule?

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                        #26

                        Quick gains equals quick losses. A little research will show that actual true muscle growth, meaning increase of actual muscle cell numbers is a very slow process. Most of what we call growth is in fact cell expansion due to water, and glycogen retention. True anabolism takes time. So "quick gains" isn't truly gain at all.  I mean, notice how many may add somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3 pounds per month and sometimes just that amount during an entire cycle. Sure, there was a gain of say 10-15 pounds, however, that gain will net far less as evidenced by scale weight after the user has completed PCT, or is about 3 to 4 weeks into the TRT/cruise.  This notion of course is a generalization, but, it is in general a fact. When I see "I want to gain a quick 20lbs!" I think, well sure, 17 lbs of water, not actual muscle. 

                        Think about what our bodies are intended to do in general. Survive and procreate. Does it need to pack on muscle mass to survive? Not really, if at all. It needs energy for hunting, gathering, going to battle, and fucking, and thinking too. One with an average frame, and good muscle mass is fit enough to do the aforesaid tasks. Because of this, our DNA simply put, is not equipped to add a shit ton of muscle quickly, we have to manipulate it to just that with aas, and other hormones concomitant with a very exact diet, and rigorous training. Our physical system is design to efficiently use energy for survival, and becoming a mass monster is not really needed for human survival. One would have to hunt and gather so much game and grain, the rest of the tribe would starve just for the needs go the man seeking to be a giant mother fucker. Look at the baking pan filled with chicken or fish. You'd have to kill a beast of an animal every damn day to feed yourself and your family, let alone the other people who live in your village. Then we would have to have an enormous chicken farm just to supply the damn eggs a bodybuilder would eat. Fuck man, I eat 2+cups of egg whites when eggs are in a meal! My family would starve if that's how I ate, leaving them the yolks maybe. I am comparing our habits as folks seeking muscular gains with people in our genetic history before the industrial revolution, because our bodies have not adapted to the huge amount of food we have available at our finger tips modernly. Obesity is a fairly new phenomena in human history, at least at the enormous level we have today. Notice how energy gets stored as fat primarily. That's our genes at work storing energy for future battles, for long treks into unknown lands to trade for goods our tribe doesn't have or would like to have, for farming rugged terrain BY HAND, for long seafaring expeditions to find better waters to fish. The list goes on.

                        Yes, again, I was long winded, sorry about that. But, I think I make my point that there are not "quick gains" unless you happen to be genetically gifted in a very unique way. I for one, am not in the respect of adding quick muscle tissue in actuality. There aren't any magic pills, magic oils, magic diets, magic training practices. But, there is hard work, determination, focus,and some chemicals that will help our endeavor in bodybuilding. Further, because of the industrial revolution, we have ample food for cheap to feed our bodies such that we can grow, but iff and only if we are hard working, determined, focused, and have a strategy for conquest. Sounds like a battle, or a hunting expedition, or a gathering plan to sustain the village for the winter to me. 

                        To sum it up, there are no quick muscular gains in reality. We have to work for them, and plan correctly to achieve the goal. This wanton "I'll take this or that and get hella huge" is a pipe dream. Time and consistency is key. Patience and determination are required. The quick and dirty approach will leave one most likely defeated. Before going to battle with an unknown foe, one must wait to see how and what they will do in the face of impending attack, or defensive action. Bodybuilding is really no different. 

                        Shit, I gotta get to work! Have great day folks!

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                          #27

                          By the way, do yo think Kai Greene or Phil Heath would do well on a battlefield with all that mass? Sure they'd take a head of or two, but I don't think they'd be able to respond very quickly to multiple attacks at once. They'd get destroyed in a chaotic mele of 8th century battle. Just saying...

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                            #28

                            By the way, do yo think Kai Greene or Phil Heath would do well on a battlefield with all that mass? Sure they'd take a head of or two, but I don't think they'd be able to respond very quickly to multiple attacks at once. They'd get destroyed in a chaotic mele of 8th century battle. Just saying... Also, I remember in high school, the big dudes were easier to fight than the wiry strong dudes. It would take a minute to take them out, and I'd have to be careful not to get taken down by the big dude. But with agility, I could take them, though once or twice I got nailed by strong smashing fist to the face which didn't end up so great for my medium sized frame lol. Win some to lose some

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                              #29

                              It's a norm...how's that lol

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                                #30
                                flacia its not nessary to remove your post. posts like this are important , for all ,,you flacia id like to thank for being man enough and respectful enough to accept our opions 0n dnp and oral only cycles ..I also 100% agree with my brothers that test is the base to every cycle and yes dnp and slin are taboo. we at mg strictly enforce these taboo subjects ., to many have fryed there organs ,have died, or are in the process..we here at mg care about all members and will do what we must to promote safe and healthy use .I also ran a oral only cycle for my first. I was misinformed and misguided ,. for the sole reason of finicial gain for the saler.i gained water weight and strenghth and quickly when DIS CONTINUED I lost all and more like super quick along with self estem ect.

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