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muscle retention

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    muscle retention

    Good day to all
    I have a couple of quick questions, and I would appreciate any advice or constructive criticism...
    I am 55, doing a 6 day split weight routine. My nutrition is clean, no sugar, no processed foods. Whey Protein, creatine, and BCAA's twice per day. I have never done roids before...
    - All Orals... I am looking at an Anavar / Winstrol stack followed by a Nolvadex PTC. 2 weeks Anavar, followed by 4 weeks Anavar and Winstrol and then 2 weeks just Winstrol followed by my PCT.
    Is this a feasible program for weight loss and mass ?

    And, my main question is, how much of the mass gain should I expect to keep after the cycle?


    Hello there Bushido and welcome to the forum. Glad to hear from you sir in keeping up the good work! I will try to help you with whatever I can. Hopefully others would step in and share their insights too.

    Let’s start from the beginning. All orals is a cycle not very recommended because it could easily shut down your testosterone production. That’s the reason why you would hear from most professionals to add a testosterone base compound. What’s the reason you look only into all orals? If you’re not a big fan of pinning, you could go for a long Test base such as Test Cypionate and once a week low dosage would be enough.
    There are people running Anavar and Winstrol only, but they know exactly what to do – that’s not always recommended, especially for beginners as you said you never used steroids before.

    Is good you plan PCT after the cycle, this would make sure you won’t screw your hormonal balance.
    Nonetheless, if you never used roids – I don’t really recommend starting with 2 steroids combined. That’s because in case you get side effects, you won’t be knowing from which one. I would recommend starting with Testosterone for a few weeks, if you are doing alright, you might throw in Anavar first because is milder than Winstrol.
    Test with Anavar is overall a mild cycle (depending on the dosage) so you are unlikely to get side effects. Yet there’s still chances you might get some, that’s why is better to start slowly. After a Test + Anavar cycle, if everything is fine, you can go for adding Winstrol.

    You may go for all orals only if dosages are low and only if you won’t feel like u get your test shut down (you would start feeling like crap if you get test shut down).
    Anavar and Winstrol are both good for weight loss, they won’t help you gain too much mass (if anything), but they make sure you keep muscles and lose fat when done properly.
    You may not add too much weight from these 2 compounds as none of them are mass gainers – they are cutting compounds. You may expect staying in same weight, but you would get less fat and a bit more muscles. Since both are “dry” steroids – most of mass gained would be maintained after the cycle, especially with a proper PCT.

    Anyways, what were the dosages you plan to run?

    Not sure if this helps with anything, but I sure hope it does. Good luck with your cycle and ask questions if you do have something to ask.


      Hmmm... that does help Bill, greatly appreciated. Fills in a few blanks. I read that orals alone were frowned upon, but I did not realize why.

      And, I had chose the Anavar for the weight loss, but had thought Winstrol had more of a mass building effect, so your input set that straight too

      I was looking to avoid the pin, primarily because I am just recreational, I don't make a living from my physical strength or appearance, so I figured straight orals would be the safer and easiest route. Now I will have to look into the test. You do what you got to do if you got a goal, right, lol.

      So, there is no tab form of test, correct? And all orals such as D-Bol etc have the same problem of shutting down natural test production.

      Going the Test Cypionate route, what is the "once a week low dosage" you would recommend, and just for reference, what would be the higher range for someone at 210 lbs at 20-25% body fat?

      And again, thanks for the come back Bill, I do appreciate the help


        for whatever the reason, i didn't see this post until this moment. I am very sorry it took me so long to reply. subcribed to this post now so any further replies would be notified.

        indeed, Anavar is mostly for weight loss, Winstrol is a combination of weight loss and a stronger mass building effect, but is an overall more toxic compound so I would recommend to go to Anavar, then, with experience, add Winstrol if needed.

        That's a common misconception among many people - orals are safer than pinning and only those who are "SERIOUS" about strength and appearance are pinning, rest are good with orals. That's not quite sure because it highly depends on the steroid itself but if I were to bet, I would say that most steroids are safer as injections and some of the nastiest ones are orals, especially when talking about liver health (but now we're not talking about Test, Winny or Anavar). in the end, if you want to stay healthy, Test is actually the best you can go with. Anavar is a good starting compound too as is mild. I understand that orals are easier, indeed, but they are not safer (but again, depending). For example Test alone is much safer than Anavar and Winstrol together, that's one sure thing.

        there is a tab form of test such as Undecanoate or methylated. I wouldn't recommend going for the methylated version since is harsh for your liver (somewhere similarly to Winstrol, if not worse). So you have Undecanoate (Testo caps). The problem here is that they are offering a short duration of effect so you need to use them multiple times per day AND you have to use a lot of capsules a day in order to make the compound effective. Plus, is definitely more expensive. You could go for this option if it doesn't bother you, but injections are longer lasting and more powerful. Their drawback is the injection only, obviously.

        Not all orals have the problem of shutting down natural test production but absolutely ALL anabolic steroids. That's why ALL cycles with steroids (yes, including testosterone alone) should be followed by PCT. There are rumors indicating that mild steroids such as Primo, Anavar and others are not requiring a Post Cycle Therapy because they are mild. Whilt their suppression rate is indeed lower, they are still capable to suppress it too much, making you feel like crap after the cycle. Maybe not for everyone, but definitely possible.

        I understand you don't love pinning that's why you go for Test Cyp and for once a week administration. That way use all weekly dosage in same day of the week. Weekly dosage for someone who never used roids in the past would be ranged between 300-500 mg weekly. Some go straight to 500 mg weekly. You could do it yourself, but I usually recommend starting lower at 300 mg weekly for around 4 weeks, then, if everything is alright, increase to 400-500 mg weekly for the rest of the cycle (which is no longer than 12 weeks for a beginner).

        Do not forget about working out and dieting. They help you reach your goals. AAS are just helping you reaching them faster (and getting over plateau once you've hit it).

        Again, sorry for the late reply - I haven't noticed your post until this moment. If you did started your cycle, please update. if there's anything else you may need, please ask. hopefully my 2 cents would be helpful.


          Hey, no problem at all Bill, I appreciate the guidance, and certainly the time you have taken to do this reply at all

          I have been spending a good bit of time doing my research... I'm in no rush, lol. I am new to the roid scene, but not new to health, fitness, and working out...

          I've just been natty all my life, but I have had about 3 yrs off in the last 5 yrs, just due to business demands, not injury. Back on the weights for almost 16 months now... At 55 though, I could use the push to get back into the 245 range. I am 218 now at just under 6', but running about 17-20% body fat, so a cut of about 15 lbs fat and mass up of about 20 lbs is what I was hoping to accomplish over about 12 to 16 wks. Nothing extreme... nice safe set points. After that, I'll see if I can get the rest naturally again before looking at a 2nd cycle.

          My primary concern at the moment is a swollen prostate over the last year, and I have been reading T can aggravate that also? To counter that, I have been looking at Cialis, I see that it gets recommended a lot for the problem. If we ever get out of lockdown here, I will get in to see the Doc.

          My nutrition is really clean, but I am eating at a surplus right now, so I am slowly dropping a bit of fat, but I have been more focused on bulking and rebuilding strength.

          I don't mind pinning, I had just figured orals safer... given that they are not, I have been eyeing XXX, and working just that for the go-round.

          If you see anything wrong with the above, I'm all ears and open to suggestions

          And, again, thanks so much Bill, I know this chews up your time...


          • admin
            admin commented
            Editing a comment
            You are not allowed to advertise sources!

          Ah, sorry, I thought that was just a product and not the source...


            Hi again. Now I got notified and my response comes faster this time

            That’s very good you’re not in a rush of running AAS. They are indeed very helpful, but only as long as you run them properly. Many people do the mistake of using roids in huge doses to get faster results and that’s how they end up with nasty side effects and the main reason why they got banned.

            Is possible to accomplish the gains of 20 lbs in 12-16 weeks, especially if you were natty all your life, but it would be harder to lose the 15 lbs of fat in the same time. However, still possible. It highly depends on your cycle type, lifestyle and obviously – personal response. To get on the second cycle you usually need to wait for as long as you’ve been running the previous cycle.

            Indeed, increased T test levels can aggravate a swollen prostate but so can many other steroids, that’s why I would recommend to deal with this health issue before actually starting the use of roids. Even if you do use them, with such a condition, you need to be extremely carefully (low dosages/ short cycles etc.)
            Cialis is not going to help you with swollen prostate (at least to my knowledge, I am not a doctor but I read a lot). Is going to help you with erectile dysfunction if you suffer from it (but many men with swollen prostate do suffer from ED – that may be the reason why Cialis was recommended for this, but it only treats your symptoms, not the condition).

            You can’t see your doctor? Is important for you see one in case you suffer from swollen prostate.

            Orals aren’t safer for sure. Anavar is pretty safe and Primo tabs, but none of them are good for bulking. Many injectables are actually safer than many orals, as mentioned in my previous posts.

            Again, hopefully this helps.
            PS: you wanted to say what you were eyeing (a product) – what is it?


              " PS: you wanted to say what you were eyeing (a product) – what is it? "
              It is the T Cypionate you recommended, just the way I wrote it out had the brand name in it and an admin flagged me on it.

              Thanks, you have pretty much filled in all the blanks for me... I'll do the Test route, but I will wait until I get in for tests. I don't have any problem with ED, just wake up twice a night to take a leak, and I saw anabolics had that side effect that could worsen it. I came across the Cialis recommendation doing some research on prostate meds, and I guess the idea is that because Cialis works more in the background by improving blood flow and relaxing restriction of the veins, a dosage of 5 to 10 mg daily also helped with SOME cases of prostate swelling. I was just considering it because the Cialis itself is pretty safe, so I figured if it worked great, if not, it was just a few bucks and the Ol' Lady would get a bit more exercise, lol.

              Thanks so much for the help Bill, I'll keep you updated


                as long as you keep it safe - go for it.
                glad my info helped you in anyway.
                yes, please update! good luck