Clearing receptors

[Dolf]

This isn't set in stone, but I'm considering an attempt at clearing my receptors. This will be for my personal benefit and hopefully an example of how to do it for other members in the future. The hard part will be that I'm low T and this might be a brutal 3 month process.

This is not my personal analogy, but its a good one I read. Imagine your receptors as a drive in restaurant, and each parking spot to order burgers is a receptor. The cars that come in to order is testosterone. When you cycle the drive in becomes very busy, and cars are coming and going. Sometimes these cars break down and can't leave the drive in leaving fewer and fewer parking spots. Unfortunately there aren't any wrecker trucks available to tow off the broke down cars. What you have to do is shut down the flood of cars coming in, and create your own wreckers to tow off the broke down cars. 

For those who say you constantly regenerate receptors, so plugged receptors are a myth...

I talked to my cousin who's in med school and 1 year from becoming a doctor. She said when you use something your receptors internalize and become less receptive to what you're using. When this happens your body does not make new receptors which is why you have to use greater amounts to get the same effect. She said once you cease using whatever you're using your body will then begin to clear out your receptors, and regenerate new receptors. She said that's why a lot of drug addicts get clean in rehab then overdose by relapsing and using the same amount of drug they used before going into rehab.

I also asked her if raising your metobolic rate would assist in clearing receptors. She said she wasn't sure, but it would make sense medically for it to help. 

My plan

 Use hcg ed at 500mcg for 10 days before pct

Nolva 40/40/20/20/20

Clomid 100/100/50/50/50

Remain natty for 3 months and use a clen cycle to raise my metabolic rate which in theory helps speed up the process. My clen cycle will be 20mcg for two to three weeks and then upping it by 20mcg every 2 to 3 weeks thereafter. 

 

[ramdisck]

I wish you luck, I'm just finishing PCT after bridging through nearly 10 months of T.  3 months free should do me some good too according to your research.

 

[Littleyokes]

I was literally discussing this with my buddy yesterday. Wondering about how my receptors will react to this cycle since I use SARMS as a bridge between cycles. And even how much SARMS block your receptors. I'm very interested in how this works out for you dolf. Definitely keep us posted on this one. 

 

[wes]

I am very intrested in this as well i have been trt for over five years and i have noticed alot of difference in my cycles and my libido the last few years , i am willing to just blast 2500 mcg of hcg a weeks for afew months and seei if this works . It has go%wm so bad i can blast a gram and a half of test e or c a week and only want to have sex once a week, have bloods done every three months by dr and have done private labs when on blast to try and figure it out and all i have come up with is blockage . Dolf p.ease let us know how this goes

 

[SemperFi]

Thanks for sharing Dolf. Clen may assist in speeding the process and I would like to offer you a guaranteed strategy.....

.... create new parking spaces.

We need to understand that the body is creating 1000's of new androgen receptors daily and cell health is critical to this process. Diet will play a leading role in speeding up this process. I recommend a strict healthy whole food diet. Whole foods contain micro nutrients that are not measured on the nutritional scale that we are accustomed too. As a 2X champion defeating cancer (the rematch was very one sided and the big C went to his corner crying "No mas") I am very aware of the importance of micro nutrients for healthy cell development. Receptor development cannot surpass healthy cell development so our focus needs to be placed on the root resource for new receptor development..... healthy cells.

If you want your receptors to work better, take care of the needs of your cells, other benefits will follow. Avoid corn oil and meat/dairy fats when you can. Do not use hydrogenated vege oils. Take fish oils and use olive oil when you can. At all costs invest in whole foods that contain the critical micro nutrients your body needs.

Supplements such as "super greens" are a good source of micro nutrients. I also supplement with LCLT (carnitine).

SEMPER FI

 

[Mister A]

Appreciate you writing this out, Dolf. Would like to address a couple things here. First would be your plan surrounding the PCT. Are you coming off following a cycle and then going back on cycle once receptors are cleared? The way I had figured it would be to cycle with long ester test, make sure any other compounds are cleared the last couple weeks on cycle while lowering my test dosage to 500mg, then switching to Test Prop at 50mg EOD for 1 week, then 25mg EOD for a 1 week, then starting PCT once the Prop clears. Following PCT I would run right back into a cycle to try to make the most use out of my newly cleared receptors. I think this gradual progression into the PCT is the best way to preserve as much of your physical and mental self while coming off.

That said, I would go into this as mentally prepared as possible. Which even as prepared as you can be, you'll probably still suffer tremendously. I know I don't have to tell Dolf this, but it should be said - do not try to do this while in a relationship without transparency. Your girl should be well informed about what's going to happen, how long it's going to last, etc. Be prepared to lose basically all your gains as well. I would actually use this as an opportunity to give your entire body a rest. I think it's easy to get caught up in the fear of losing your gains and wanting to hold onto them, but it's really like pissing up a rope. Like SF said, a whole food diet is going to be mostly beneficial here. I'd also recommend including as much fiber as possible to cleanse yourself. Lower protein intake to no more than 1 gram per pound a day. Give your kidneys a break. Use systemic enzymes like protease. Use probiotics to promote good bacteria. Include lots of fruits like blueberries for antioxidants to fight free radicals. And of course drink plenty of water.

I wouldn't suggest not weight training for 3 months, but I'd definitely recommend taking 2-3 weeks completely off from weights. To further recovery, I'd use this time to do things like yoga and ART to promote recovery of joints and muscles. Having the perspective that this period is about regeneration, recovery and preparation will get you through the tough days where you feel like a regular human.

I want to point out that a guy like Kevin Levrone came completely off for months at a time throughout his career. Now, I understand he's got some of the best genetics of all time, but it's also fairly easy to see how beneficial his time off was to him. An 8 week precontest cycle (no doubt with mega dosages) provided him with massive gains in part due to how sensitive his receptors had become after his time off. It didn't matter that he lost 30 pounds during his off time, it came back in just a couple months using this method. (I'm not sold on his ability to do it again at 50 years old, btw, but I'm hoping he places top 10 at the O and doesn't regret this comeback.)

 

[SemperFi]

Great addition Griz.

Actually I would encourage resistance training on a regular basis as this will help promote new androgen receptor growth but as Griz said a break would be appropriate. 

SEMPER FI

 

[Dolf]

I'm gonna continue to eat clean at maintenance caloric intake, and train effectively. The goal is not muscle or joint revovery, but to clear out receptors, so that 500 to 750mg will be more effective than the 1000 to 1200mg I need now. My muscles and joints feel great.

As far as the wife goes I've got a stockpile of viagra.

As of now this is not set in stone. I have to get mentally prepared, and need to feel the juice is worth the squeeze. I'm currently running trt at 200mg test c per week. 

As far as weight loss I started at 155lbs and now I'm about 230 so a bit of weight liss is not a worry especially if the future results mean me reaching my goal of 250lbs. I think this will aid me in reaching that goal, and really look forward to comparing my first post receptor cleanse to my first cycle ever. It seems reasonable of possible greater gains since I'm way more in tune with my body from a macro standpoint and a compound standpoint. 

 

[SemperFi]

You got ballz brother and I support any decision you make!

It could be a tough road but I also think it could be an invaluable experience for yourself and others to learn from. Just like AAS supplementation don't place any unrealistic expectations on the process. Take control of the things you have control over and accept the results for what they are.

A question that I do have and I am just throwing it out there - Since 200mg/wk of test is the typical replacement dose isn't it possible that the body reacts naturally to this and receptors will and can clear over time in a natural manner while producing new healthy receptors just as it would in a vibrant healthy younger male who produces an equal measure of natural testosterone?

SEMPER FI

 

[siegmund]

Nice theory i like it 

 

[Mister A]

From what I understand (which is not much, I'll be the first to admit), your receptors will clear on a standard TRT dose. It will take longer, but eventually they will clear. However, the issue of sensitivity is separate. Nothing will make your androgen receptors as sensitive as bringing your testosterone close to zero. It's the difference between being hungry and starving to death. I wish I had a more scientific understanding of this, but all I know is that a cleared receptor and a sensitized receptors are not the same thing. If I get the time I'll try to get some science up here.

 

[SemperFi]

What about the creation of new androgen receptors or increasing the number of androgen receptors per cell? Would they be desensitized as well?

Questions that are certainly worth exploring.

There are a few things that effect androgen receptor regulation (sensitivity) and so far I have seen no scientific studies that androgen receptor down regulation (desensitize) can even happen in human muscle tissue. I know several members have spoken about the need for increasing levels of dosing to get the same benefits but I have never personally experienced this. 

I am pretty confident that in the "real world" individuals have experienced better results from lower doses by laying off cycle for a period of time but I just want to make sure we are attempting to provide facts concerning the process and not pure "bro science".

I remember a study I read one time about certain individuals having a longer and slower receptor feedback loop (can't remember the term) than others. I will have to do some digging on the net to see if I can find that.

SEMPER FI

 

[Dolf]

I've thought about that as well which is why this is labeled as an experiment. I always cruise at my prescribed dosage so this could be all for naught or could give good insight for trt patients. Can the body tell the difference between natural and synthetic testosterone? If my natty levels at their peak were 500 and my doctor keeps me between 800 and 900 could that signal my body to not create or clear receptors? Why when our trt levels are within natural levels do we get testicular atrophy? We know that's because with synthetic testosterone supplying our needs that the testicles shut down, so does that mean our bodies know the difference between the two. I've ran many scenarios and questions through my brain. I also like to experiment just to see the early signs, symptoms, and feeling of different scenarios which is why I purposely crashed my own e2 and ran tren with high doses of test. Knowing personally how these things feel is invaluable to myself and the community. 

 

[SemperFi]

Dolf,

In your studies and decision making process I would recommend doing some studying on l-carnitine. Googling "carnitine androgen receptors" will provide you with a quick path of information.

In a nut shell, carnitine has been shown to increase the amount of active androgen receptors in the human body, meaning that it increases the amount of receptor sites where androgens (testosterone and DHT) actually bind into.

SEMPER FI

 

[Big Nasty]

Def want to keep this thread rolling. Very interesting. Even in my small cycles and really very limited experience, I can tell that being on TRT and having done smaller cycles in the past, each time the dose must be increased and the gains are either not as good as before and/or they come harder each time. I presumed that being on my current cycle largest ever I would make phenomenal gains. While I have made great progress, its still not like the gains I made in the past on much smaller dose and less compound cycles. Granted Im in my 40's so that plays a factor as well but I def require higher dosages now.  When I started TRT I made some small gains which then plateaued and at 200 mg wk of Test C or E I feel good but not like the first year when I started.  Receptor shut down makes complete sense. Our body adapts to absolutely everything we do to it either positively or negatively. Not sure I want to go completely off TRT. Im thinking at the end of this cycle cutting it to 100 mg wk. Maybe just enough to keep me in the low normal range which sucks but I think would prevent the shock of going cold turkey. Dolf be careful brother you are a bold character. I would love to hear and learn from your experience  but also wouldn't want you to crash in the same breath. Although I guess one doesnt know until we experience it ourselves. 

 

[blastthru23]

In another thread, a member posited the notion of "burning out receptors," which seems to suggest that AR are destroyed by use of AAS, much like neural connections are destroyed when using solvent-based drugs. Naturally, I became  curious,  and went to good ole google. 

First, i found that receptors may increase in numbers over time due to an increase of available [exogenously introduced] testosterone. However, receptors become desensitized over time. How much time? I did not find anything that states a cut and dry answer. I found nothing suggesting that AR are destroyed by saturation with AAS.

Anyhow, the rabbit hole if AR sensitivity research led me to this article ( https://books.google.com/books?id=MkrAPaQ4wJkC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=androgen+receptor+degradation+and+steroids&source=bl&ots=t67qeFDBcD&sig=_OX0vhGa65lKcIgnPWoFXSpElW4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVscan7vXOAhUMHGMKHQ32BGQ4ChDoAQgJMAA#v=onepage&q=androgen%20receptor%20degradation%20and%20steroids&f=false), which is quite heady, but has illustrations, and for the most part, is fairly easy to read. To be honest, i did not read the whole article due to the small text size (for the time being, my phone is my computer) and my bad eye sight. 

 

[rgonza22]

Perfect Analogy. You are exactly right about everything that you have said. Tolerance is the major concept of this discussion. In other words, adding more just doesnt help, and yes, time off is what clears out the receptors.Detox from time to time, and maintaining a sensable dose is the key for those whom use opiates or opiods in order to stay high; the same goes for any substance that we put into our bodies, IMO. Quality of product plays a major role as well; this is another reason for drug overdoses. I truly beleive that the way you are approaching this is probably the most sensable and promising way to gain the most out of your cycles, and to maintain. Thanks for posting this. 

 

[Blahblah]

This is all very fascinating.  Bookmarked for updates!

 

[Dolf]

Unfortunately due to certain events in my life this has been put off for a while. 

 

[blastthru23]

Got to prioritize, and take care of business. Nice to see ya popping in from time to time