Cutting and Fat Loss

[ruxgear]

TOTALLY against the grain is a narrow-minded view of the situation and the going with the grain isn't the only right course of action and in many cases is dead wrong. I know dozens, if not hundreds, of professional trained athletes who make their living at the chosen profession that follow a zero carb post workout regimen pre-competion.

Remember the title of this thread is "Cutting and Fat Loss" not OPTIMAL (your word not mine) muscle growth. The human body has a massive reserve of energy (fat), even at very low body fat percentages, it can use without post workout carbs. It's called employing thermodynamics. My muscle growth is no different taking a zero post workout carb as it would be if I used a post workout carb. 

I cannot disagree with what the hormone insulin does for muscle energy but the timing is highly debatable. Since I am a minority here it will be difficult to persuade you to consider the alternative possibilities in the timing of the release of the hormone. Timing is the debate not the benefits of the release.

I can guarantee a few hours after carb vs. no carb post workout muscle protein will be the same. The insulin spike will speed up the process slightly but overall has no increased benefit. Insulin is unneeded when fatty acid burn is in affect.

Maybe I jumped the gun and posted in "Competition Prep" incorrectly. It appears I may have confused several of you that I was meaning BB competition prep. If so, I apologize for that created confusion. I am not a bodybuilder nor have the desire to be one. I am a different kind of athlete that requires to stay as small and strong as possible to remain in my chosen weight class or risk moving to a bigger class. Hulks don't make it very far in my profession. If their bigger than me I just don;t take them to the ground. We deal with it standing up. I apologize for mucking up your board.

 

[ruxgear]

FYI-

nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-10-15

"After taking blood samples and muscle biopsies, the researchers discovered something that contradicts our present views on how we should eat post-workout. At first, the individuals who consumed the carbohydrates with their protein had an insulin spike along with their hyperglycemia (increase in blood sugar), which should be a surprise to no one. They also had a greater portion of the protein ingested incorporated into their muscle. However, just a few hours later, the differences between the two groups were gone. Those eating protein alone had just as much of it in their muscle as those who used the golden 2:1 ratio." - Doug Dupont

I found this information very interesting - While experiencing no insulin spike, the protein only group absorbed and utilized just as much as the carb and protein group. Makes you want to consider the questionable benefit of post workout insulin spike. The timing is very debatable and I choose not to spike my insulin post workout because doing so hinders GH and fatty acid burn. Do we really need those extra carbs?

Fatty acid burn vs. Glucose - Ketones are the end product of fatty acid burn (thermodynamics) and compared to glucose they are far superior.  Unlike glucose ketones do not require insulin to enter cells and be incorporated into the metabolic cycle that generate the cellular fuel ATP.  They cannot be converted to body fat. Also, unlike most fats, ketones can freely enter the brain where they are an excellent fuel.  On top of all that ketones generate more ATP per unit of oxygen consumed than any other energy source.  Ketones are our body’s super fuel.

The results in Table 1 are pretty cool. Willoughby's in particular even for a BB'er - 

jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-10-5

 

Doug Dupont - breakingmuscle.com/coaches/doug-dupont

 

[ruxgear]

Ketones -

extremephysiolmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2046-7648-3-17

In regards to ketosis it is easily achieved through supplementation and is not limited to the traditional ketosis diet.

Science is ever changing and evolving. Ketones are far superior for muscle energy than any other sources. And the use of ketones spares muscle protein. 

When we are in a diet restricted state of ketosis burning fatty acid (fat) creates the ketone bodies. Introducing carbohydrates interfere with this process.

All humans release ketone bodies under stress. So even if you are not diet restricted or supplementing you can benefit from exercise induced ketone bodies (fatty acid burn) if you restrict carbohydrates for a period of time post workout.

 

[swolesam]

good reads Rux. They do show that the all so famous 45-minute anabolic window post workout is not as significant unless you trained fasted OR you're planning on engaging in strenuous activity again shortly after (few hours). 

howtobeast.com/proof-the-post-workout-anabolic-window-is-a-lie/

breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/is-the-anabolic-window-a-myth

Interesting articles i came across when further investigating this topic, listed above. 

The theories do challenge alot of "mainstream" concepts which is ok as long as its right. The thing that i dont think they take into consideration is bbers on AAS, do they have the same requirements when it comes to PWO nutrition & insulin spiking? Obviously it will vary based on the AAS used, timing & frequency, but nevertheless its a variation to consider when evaluating these claims.

 

[ruxgear]

You are absolutely right Sam. The "mainstream" concept that the world is "flat" held up for a very long time. It is good to challenge conventional thinking especially when combined with personal experience. It's how any sport evolves. I certainly look forward to any advancement in sports nutrition.

I believe that a competing bodybuilder would be the only exception to the rules. They have special requirements and much of what they do is NOT common practice. IMO they are even secretive about what they do individually for good reason. I know if I had a competitive advantage over my competition I certainly wouldn't share it with the world. Professionals take extreme measures and risks for their sport but they also have access to resources that the average person does not. Sponsorship brings with it many advantages.

There are more ways than one to skin a cat.

 

[SharonKY]

Rux, this is very helpful information...I appreciate all the trouble you went to typing this up. 

 

[ruxgear]

You are very welcome.

 

 

[Dolf]

Very interesting stuff here rux. I'm gonna give it a try my next cut, so I'll definitely be hitting you up for some advice.

 

[ruxgear]

I am by no means a qualified trainer but I would be more than happy to help out from my own personal experience. My goals, as expressed in my training, is always geared to pure raw strength (arms, legs, neck), endurance and explosiveness.

 

[Dolf]

Yes sir that's all I'm asking for. I've been considering switching to that type of training program, and this has made my mind up I'm gonna give it a try. I'm not a young buck anymore and I have a bulged disc and a few fucked up joints from my army days, but I'll give anything a try once. 

 

[SemperFi]

Dolf,

I joined the ranks 8 months ago and let me tell you it is tough at our age but my god is it satisfying. Just make sure you go to Costco and buy the bulk IB bottles.  

I am in the ring now and these poor kids are clueless. They keep hitting this old man in the face. That does nothing but make me smile. )))))

Admission- every single one of them have kicked the shit out of me without even breaking a sweat. 

SEMPER FI

 

[Dunbar]

The only way this makes sense to me is if you were FAR behind in a cut. If your to the point where you need to deplete glycogen to make weight- your performance is going to suffer.

Unless your Superman

 

[THE MOOSE]

When I'm cutting... I just go longer between meals__"FRANK ZANE"

Keep it simple!!!!!