Hcg protocols and dosing

[bigmurph]

Im not sure if this should be in pct because I don't believe that hcg is pct. You use it before your pct because it stimulates your fsh and lh but still suppresses natural Testosterone production.

I have ran hcg multiple times and different ways so I wanted to share my hcg experiences which will hopefully help some guys out.

The first way to run hcg would be what they call the blast. It is usually run by using 5000iu over the 14 days between your last inj and your pct. You will start it right after last inj using 2500iu then 5 days later inj 1500iu then again 5 days later using 1000iu. This method does help but there are alot of downsides to it. First being that using such high doses of hcg at the end of your cycle will spike your estro alot and can be hard to control and can give you gyno quick. Second even though its stimulating the fsh and lh its a little late because they are already shut down hard so it helps but not as good as the second protocol.

The second protocol which is what I use is the last 8wks up until pct I use 500iu e5d. You will use around 11 shots so around 5500iu. I usually order a 10,000iu kit and use a little under 1000iu e5d thats what works well for me. This protocol still has the downside of the estrogen spikes but is more manageable then the blast. The positive side to running this protocol is controll of estro keeping your balls full and stimulating your fsh and lh over a period of time rather than trying to save it after they have already been crushed. Your fsh and lh come back easier during pct because you have kept them from just crashing. This is definitely the way to go in my opinion.

The third protocol which I advise against it was very stupid for me to even try and I had to stop because of a gyno scare. You would start right at the beginning of your cycle and use 500iu to 1000iu e5d for your entire cycle. I just want to say that this is not what you want to do. First thing wrong is over stimulation. Second is estro will be like a roller coaster which will make you feel shitty and lathergic.

Hcg is great for helping with recovery but with every compound we take there are positive results and negative side effects. If anyone has any questions about hcg I have alot of real life experience and can answer almost anything about it. I hope that this post will help some guys out. If anyone has anything to add i would like to hear it.

Thanks brothers 

Bigmurph 

 

[Outlawthing]

I run same protocol as siempre 1000iu per week split dose  while trying to make a baby I took 3000iu per week and he is correct it does effect my estrogen but i am an estrogen factory  I had to use an ai to keep it in check  at such a high dose  have not had it checked on this lower dose  with  a minimal ai 

 

[SemperFi]

Here you go new Papa...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2347086

 

SEMPER FI

 

[SemperFi]

Thanks for sharing your experiences brother. There certainly is a lot of debate concerning HCG usage and you will find many different opinions. 

I have been on HCG 1000iu/wk for over four years and I run it full time on cycle without issues strictly for aesthetic purposes. Your third protocol experience is an individual experience and is not common to the majority of individuals. HCG is known to cause your issue in cases where the individual is E2 sensitive. Using a properly dosed AI will prevent any issues in the majority of cases.

Could you please explain to us the idea of "over stimulation" at 1000iu/wk full time? If you have any supporting scientific documentation that would be great as well. Thanks is advance. The reason I ask is that many TRT patience are on HCG full time over many years. Since steroid use suppresses natural testosterone production and knowing the doses of HCG that are needed to provide significant increases in natural production from scientific studies I am having a hard time grasping the idea of over stimulation.

 

SEMPER FI

 

[blastthru23]

Like SF, I've been using HCG consistently for just about 2 years at 500 iu per week with no negative side effects related to E2 problems. I know that I am not E2 sensitive, and perhaps those who are, may want to reconsider using HCG under the protocol listed in #3.

 

[blastthru23]

Sure is refreshing when an article is easy to read and understand

 

[ESmetalhead]

lol

 

[bigmurph]

When I was saying overstimulation I was talking about receptors getting burnt out and the effects diminishing.

You have been running 1000iu for 4yrs!!

Yeah that goes against my experience because I have trouble controlling estro on hcg. I use aromasin and Proviron and sometimes I get above my comfort zone of 50 to 70 on bloods.

I have known about trt patients using hcg every week but I thought the doses were alot lighter like 250iu then after time when bloods show its time to up the doses I figured it might go to 500iu. I haven't started trt I still have around 5yrs before that. Im really like being here your guys answers are making me open my eyes and look at things differently than I have for years.

 

[bigmurph]

Yeah I always have high estro as soon as I use hcg

 

[bigmurph]

You to are lucky I can take Proviron on a basic test cycle and my estro stays fine no problems. Once I start hcg my estro goes crazy.

This truly proves when it comes to estro everyone is different.

 

[bigmurph]

Thats a solid link +1

 

[SemperFi]

</p><p>When I was saying overstimulation I was talking about receptors getting burnt out and the effects diminishing.</p><p><span style="font-size: 14px;">

</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 14px;">Your body is always producing new receptors so I think this must be </span>bro-science<span style="font-size: 14px;"> that you have read </span>because<span style="font-size: 14px;"> there is no </span>scientific<span style="font-size: 14px;"> basis for receptor burn out with HCG usage.</span></p><p>Could<span style="font-size: 14px;"> it happen? If it did than wouldn't it be true concerning LH sense they bind to the same receptors? W</span><span style="font-size: 14px;">ithout </span>scientific<span style="font-size: 14px;"> evidence I would disregard the thought process of receptor burn out.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 14px;">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone_receptor</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 14px;">SEMPER FI</span></p>

 

[bigmurph]

You're completely right about it being bro science. I get it from just the thought of almost all other compounds burning out receptors after long time use.

Do you believe that your receptors for Testosterone burn out also. Or do you think that this isn't also true?

I get that thinking from running a pct and taking a break from running for basically the time you cycled plus pct. So usually around 21wks. I always believed that we did this 1 to take a break and not fry our endocrine system 2 to actually give your receptors time to recover from the barrage of hormones.

 That link is interesting it says that water soluble peps like hcg don't bind to a receptor but a cellular membrane. I also read that retinoids or accutane also bind to the same receptors as steroids. Interesting read learned 2 new things.

 

[SemperFi]

I know many that cycle regularly have to use larger dosage or take longer breaks between cycles to receive the same PERCEIVED benefits from previous steroid cycles. I certainly never have personally experienced this but some of my buddies have. 

It has to be a possibility but without more scientific research the actual reason that it happens is all guess work.

Concerning a barrage of hormones - This is happening every second of every day within the endocrine system whether you are using steroids or not.

You are correct- most will recommend time off should equal time on + PCT.

SEMPER FI

 

[SemperFi]

</p><p><span style="font-size: 14px;"> That link is interesting it says that water soluble peps like hcg don't bind to a receptor but a cellular membrane. I also read that retinoids or accutane also bind to the same receptors as steroids. Interesting read learned 2 new things.</span></p><p>

</p><p> </p><p>LH and HCG bind to <span style="color: #545454; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">the luteinizing hormone-chorionic gonadotropin </span><span style="font-size: 14px; color: #6a6a6a; font-family: arial, sans-serif;">receptor </span><span style="color: #545454; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">(LHCGR). Cellular membranes contain receptors. </span></p><p><span style="color: #545454; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_surface_receptor</span></p><p><span style="color: #545454; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">SEMPER FI</span></p>

 

[bigmurph]

Brother i love this im getting schooled here.

You definitely know your shit and back it up with links. You're a solid member i know who im coming to if I need some advice.

Hell yeah +1

 

[blastthru23]

That makes it really difficult to give solid state advice. We can generalize to a degree on many things, but at the end of the day all users MUST know their own bodies, and blood work is not a corner to be cut in this game. Likely end all messed up if one isn't tuned in to their inner workings.

 

[bigmurph]

Bloods are key to running a proper cycle to many skip this step but you really need to know where you are at or you're just guessing and thats how gyno and other bad things happen.

 

[Dolf]

So when a heroin addict is using a large amount of herion after many years of usage, and then goes to rehab, and gets clean. Then they relapse and o.d. when they use the same amount as before going to rehab that's not proof of plugged receptors? 

I sat down with my cousin who's 3 years deep into med school, and she seemed to believe receptors become plugged thus reducing sensitivity. She used the above anology. She seemed to believe that while receptors do regenerate they do so at a much slower pace while still using something, as opposed to ceasing use of whatever you're using.

 

 

[SemperFi]

This was great argument when you originally posted it and it makes perfect sense.

The endocrine system is way to complex for me to even try to understand. Even a third year med student has to make an educated guess. In the end I can only go by what I know and have experienced.

 

SEMPER FI