The thread is old but I want to respond. I personally believe pre work out is garbage and worse for your heart than a conservative dose of roids. I know many people who have messed up their hearts from energy drinks. Once you mess up your heart you aren't fixing it. At least with roids if you mess up your hormone balance you can most likely get it back. I do realize long term use of roids or very heavy doses do damage to the heart, not arguing that. But taking high doses of stimes just to feel your face tingly before a workout? WTF is the point? They do have non stim pre workouts that I really like to use. Nothing beats some creatine, arginine, and some salt for a safe pre workout.