Protein Intake; based on present weight or desired weight? (Moved from wrong area)

124grovest

New member

I have searched the forums regarding protein intake as well as sites on the Internet. I keep coming across info that I’d like some clarification on and it has to do with protein intake. Who would have thought there would be conflicting info on the internet?

  So, I am eating KETO and dialing in my calories to around 2000 a day. My workouts consist of  5 HIIT cardio days a week because the “gym” I had available to use is closed for 3-6 months for lead-abatement. At this point it is mostly cardio with 3 super-sets of pushups to failure followed by coffee table dips to failure, flowed by various hallucinations and unknown voices. Seeing I have at least 20-30lbs to shed, I thought this was the best way to go.

  I have read .75g to 2.0 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight should be consumed. Others have indicated that it should be based on your desired weight as opposed to your current weight, which really changes things. 

  With that said, I drove out and hooked up that dead horse called “Protein Intake” to my 4-wheeler and have pulled it back into the forum arena to be beaten once again. Grab your sticks folks and giver it a whack, I’m all ears…. with a few pounds of visceral fat tossed in. 

 

SenseiMiagi

New member

Shit man, hard to add to the advice above.  Experiment with your numbers as we all respond differently.  Im currently on .8 or so grams/lb BW and seem to be maintaining ok, but not on Keto either so comparison may not be appropriate.

 

124grovest

New member

I might be over thinking this, help me understand it if I am. You wrote: "If muscle preservation is a secondary goal than I recommend that you do not drop your protein below 30% of your daily calories."        If muscle preservation was my primary goal, would I even entertain being on a Ketogenic diet? 

Another thing that popped into my mind is this. Since I have stopped eating too many carbs, I don't feel as bloated/puffy as I did. My clothes seem to be less snug and I am just feeling better. I attribute a lot of this to being sober and a good nights sleep, but it seems obvious that I have lost a lot of water that was being retained. With that being said, wouldn't I get a different caliper reading when calculating body fat? I don't have a set immediately available to check. 

 Thanks for making it clear that on a Ketogenic diet the % amount of protein is based on caloric intake rather than on a persons weight. 

 

SemperFi

Well-known member

Keto is not the best choice for muscle preservation in my experience. When it comes to diet, fat loss and muscle development my first choice was removing all processed foods, most added sugar, all high fructose corn syrup and all concentrated fruit juices. A very simple diet that is guaranteed to provide positive results is converting to a whole food diet and avoiding the typical western diet.

The debate concerning the amount of protein an individual actually needs to preserve and/or build muscle will never be put to rest. My belief is that each person needs to develop a method, apply the method and then adjust. Time and consistency using a specific method is a simple process to achieve our desired results. What may work for you may not work for me and vice versa.

 

SEMPER FI

 

SemperFi

Well-known member

Keto is touchy concerning protein. Over consumption of protein and not enough fats increases the chances of kicking yourself out of ketosis and into gluconeogenesis (creating glucose from non-carbohydrates). Sounds crazy but the human body has amazing survival skills. ;) Once you enter GNG you are done burning fatty acids for fuel and defeating the purpose of ketosis. Not eating enough protein will lead to lean muscle mass loss and a lower metabolic rate reducing fatty acid burn. I have never exceeded more than 45% and never less than 25% of calories from protein while on a keto diet. Most keto sites recommend 30% maximum. Monitoring your ketones is an important part of ketosis. If you begin messing with your %'s you need to find your upper and/or lower ranges of each macro while being able to remain in ketosis based on your energy expenditure. Changing your energy expenditure will change your upper and lower limits accordingly.

On a keto diet your protein intake is going to be calorie based not body weight based. You calories are going to be based on your total daily energy expenditure and if you are attempting to create a calorie deficit, maintenance or a calorie surplus. On a 2000 calorie diet 30% of calories from protein would equal 150gr of protein.

I used your profile stats to estimate your maintenance TDEE with moderate exercise to be 2745 calories per day. A 2000 calorie a day diet places you in a 745 calorie a day deficit. Based on your current weight and level of exercise 150g of protein a day is a rock solid target range.

I also took the liberty to use your profile numbers to calculate your fat free mass index score (FFMI)... screw BMI.... its so 19th century. Your adjusted FFMI is 20.63 which places you in the above average range for lean mass. If muscle preservation is a secondary goal than I recommend that you do not drop your protein below 30% of your daily calories.

TRT is going increase your bodies protein synthesis making better use of those 150gr of protein for muscle preservation. A calorie is not a calorie and a gram is not a gram when we are enhanced. ;)

Sorry this was so long winded but I am passionate about such things. Hope that helps.

 

SEMPER FI

 

 

Dolf

Moderator

If you are keto 35% of your total calories should be protein. My numbers are 35% protein, 5% carbs, and 60% fats. Any other type of diet 1g to 1.5g per pound of your body weight is a good number to shoot for. One shoe does not fit everyone, so diet like other things in this game is an experiment that you need to play with to find what works best for you.

 

124grovest

New member

Everything I have read so far regarding Keto tells me to load up on vegetables specifically green leafy vegetables, broccoli, cabbage, brussels sprouts, avoiding those with high sugar content like carrots, potatoes, beets, etc... When I count the carbs in the recommended veggies it doesn't take long, they add up quickly. Initially I was tempted to not include them but it only makes sense that a carb is a carb. I understand fiber is subtracted by some because it is believed not to elevate blood serum levels. What is your take? One more thing, what helps with avoiding constipation?

 

SenseiMiagi

New member

This is a debate amongst Keto enthusiasts.  Some believe vegetable carbs shouldnt count, as the benefit from the vitamins, fiber, and minerals outweighs the impact of carbs.  Yet others say the carb count knocks you out of keto, and one cam get the vitamins and minerals from the fatty meats they consume.

Traditional Keto calls for 75% of calories coming from fat.  Personally, I think more protein is needed with our lifestyle, but others may object.  Just have to try out the different philosophies as they all make good points, but in the end the results are individual dependent.

 

SemperFi

Well-known member

I have experimented extensively in this area and my personal experience shows that consuming to many carbs from any source will take me out of ketosis as shown on a ketone test strip. The lower the carbs are on the glycemic index the quicker my body will process the sugars and return to ketosis.

Quick note- There are different degrees of ketosis. So consuming carbs is a balancing act. Once I am in ketosis I am not alarmed if I go to the lower end or kicked out because I know it is only temporary. Typically 4-12 hours depending on the amount and my activity level. Consuming MCT oil post carbs will also assist in remaining in or returning to ketosis.

 

SEMPER FI

 

SemperFi

Well-known member

On keto all of my carbs come from veggies. Mostly in the form of broccoli, spinach and asparagus. To remain in ketosis I limit my carbs between 30-50g/day. I count the fiber as part of total carbohydrates. My daily carbohydrates are timed post workout.


To help with constipation I use a good probiotic, enzymes, and psyllium husk. I use the following enzymes-



  • Protease - for proteins and peptides

  • Lipase- for fats and fatty acids

  • Complete enzyme complex- overall coverage 


Another popular version of a keto diet is the anabolic diet that includes carb cycling (refeeding). Here is a PDF version of such a diet-


PDF icon The Anabolic Diet.pdf


 


SEMPER FI

 

SenseiMiagi

New member

"Temporary Ketosis" is somewhat the approach Ive been taking, or at least my intention.  After losing the bulk of my pounds I started consuming a preworkout carb drink.  I train early in the AM, so this greatly enhanced my sessions.  I dont do any direct carb sources until maybe a couple slices of ezekiel bread at dinner.  Hope to achieve a ketogenic type state most of the day as I go through post workout burn.  Seem to be maintaining weight while improving strength and losing BF.  Time will tell, but it is damn hard to eat a "few" carbs!  Body craves them the more you eat lol.

Sorry to OP, didnt mean to hijack thread.

 

siegmund

Moderator

Shit  

Cant believe,  i never ever took a good look at diets   , yes i have been geneticly   ,gifted but after realizing its not the looks alone but  the needed nutrition. Ect      now im looking at this diets with a sence of  care imlortance  thats guys for keeping up on all +3 to everyone   

Sig 

 

BobbyO190

Moderator

124 you are fast becoming my favorite poster. FUNNY writing style!

You have competition with Blast but that was very witty! Well written, keep it up.   After that I have to agree with Siegmund. Great stuff all and you have my admiration, I just don't track diet at that extreme a level. But I sure like learning from you guys who do.

 
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