Stack option

[BobbyO190]

Okay, it's time to start planning my next cycle. I have a month or more before it begins but I need to place orders etc...so it seems a good time to find out what you guys think might be a good option for my next cycle and still give myself time to do deeper research into those ideas before ordering. 

So basics: 5'9"  185lbs  Solid build and work out regimen. 53 yrs.

Previous cycles:

500mg Test

Then: 600mg Sust.;  same for next cycle

Then: 600mg Test E and 80mg Anavar 

Did PCT after the first two cycles but then switched to TRT of 200mg a week of Test C. 

GOAL: Lasting gains, limited sides....especially limit anger issues (thus no Tren). Want help with the last bit of belly fat. 

I have been extremely happy with Sustenon in the past and very very happy with Test C for TRT; I have kept most gains in strength even if not in size. 

So obviously the base will be Test....whether C or Sus.  

I appreciate any suggestions on what to add to the cycle!  Mast? EQ? T-bol? Var?  any thoughts and experience and advice is appreciated!

 

 

[blastthru23]

You might be ready for a test npp cycle. I personally love npp, good for cut or mass

 

[RazorsEdge]

My favorite new mini stack,Blast!

 

[blastthru23]

Throw a bit of masteron in with it too, I love mast p

 

[SemperFi]

BobbyO,

At my age I try to avoid orals. It's not that I fear liver toxicity. I just understand as I age my body can not overcome abuse as it once did so I take as many precautions that I can for longevity.

At your height and weight you are getting pretty lean. Maybe like 10-12% BF or less depending on your LBM. Unless you want to experiment with something else if I were you I would stick to what has worked for me in the past (Sust, TestC) and focus on diet changes to remove the remainder of that stubborn chest, back and lower ab fat.

Primo and/or Tren are very good choices for retaining muscle in a calorie deficit or maintenance diet. Primo being my first choice due to its so-called mild nature and very low risk of negative side effects. 

 

SEMPER FI

 

 

[strong]

Hey Bobby,

Plan and focus on your diet first. This is way more important than what compounds that you will choose. I heard many times diet, diet ,diet.. I was always eating the proper foods but wasn't focused in on how many calories, timing of meals etc.. Rather than challenge you on your knowledge of compounds, i'd love to see you focus and play with your diet on this run. For 17 months now I've changed my way of thinking, not just my diet... Bobby, you have come so far and its time for you to really reap the benefits.  For me, It was tough to figure out caloric intake. I was not losing BF the way I wanted to based on what I've read about other peoples diet. I had to get down to 1300 calories and proper timing of carb intake etc.  I told many that my calories were at 1300 for about 8 weeks.. EVERYONE I spoke with said " wow, That's too low" Maybe for them it is but not for me.

I will throw in some opinions on compounds... Lets say you go Sust, NPP, primo.   id recommend sust @500 mgs. Npp @300 mgs and primo @ 400mgs. That 9 ML's per week.. With Sust you really need to pin Mon, wed, fri.. (some recommend more frequent) Do you really want to load the barrel with 3 cc's and pin 3 days a week? Or break it down on volume and do more frequent pins.?? Or Test E or C, Deca, Primo. Now youre talking 7 cc's per week... I personally like to keep my injections 2 cc or less per pin.  I will say that primo is an incredible compound and has helped me with vascularity, separation, striations, Yet its very mild on my body.. Im highly recommending 400 mgs of primo in your cycle...

I see Test, Low deca for an old Man : ) and primo..    

500/600 test e or c

300mgs deca

400primo..

I know you enough now Bobby that I feel I can recommend a cycle... The next guy may have different goals to be a monster. He'd laugh at my numbers.. I feel it would be perfect... That diet is going to get you where you want to be and give you the "Lasting results" that you are looking for... Get your water figured out as well. 1.25 Gallons in my #..  

Lastly, We all have recommendations. I will recommend the best primo and price that has worked for me if you wish... Just PM me..

 

[BobbyO190]

Thanks guys! Huge help and any other input is welcome!  

Your right Strong, huge isn't my goal. If I had found this younger then maybe but now, I want size etc but not the same. 

Can I ask a question. A couple of you mentioned NPP, what is NPP - I don't know the compound at all. 

Also Test or Sust as the base is automatic but I am woefully ignorant of the differences of Mast, Deca, Primo, EQ.....If I understand correctly EQ and Primo are both mostly for 'cutting' and vascularity - but I could be wrong. I know I can just look them up but I am hopeful for personal experiences if anyone has the time. 

As for diet, lets jump on a new train for a bit. (I admit to NOT doing a great job with water, my hydration is largely coffee and tea with not enough straight water in a day).  1,300 calories is probably more the style I need to shoot for, so how do you balance?  How many meals and at what time splits and what meal preference? Any suppliments in there such as Protien powder or BCAA drinks?  

I will always end up making it my own but I love having someone to copy for the first week or two just to give me a road map to play with. 

Thanks again all and sorry if I covered too much here  

 

[supps]

NPP is just a faster Ester than Nandrolone Decanoate (DECA)  Its call Nandrolone Phenylpropionate or NPP its more often used with Test Propionate or Sustanon because of the faster acting ester Where as Deca is used with Test Ethanate or test Cypionate (slower acting esters)  As for diet, if you are trying to Bulk up a bit 1300 calories is not even close to what you need! More like 5000 calories a day of clean foods.. that means NO pizza or fried foods and shit like that more like chicken breasts, broccoli, Asparagus, Sweet potatoes, steel rolled Oatmeal lots of eggs and definitely add a protein shake id say two a day... split your meals 5 meals a day... you do the math! hit Mrfixit up, he knows his shit! he has helped me tremendously for a 50+ year old guy i am looking and feeling the best i EVER have in my entire life... There are a lot of other very Knowledgeable guys on here as well !! There are some smart MOFO's on MG if you ask around you will get all the help you need !!! Good Luck my man!!!

 

 

[BobbyO190]

Thanks supps. The research I have done shows Deca as being quite a bit different compound than NPP.  But it's just one source, is the common consensus that they are the same? Anyone ever use both, any difference in reaction?   

My research said (again it could be wrong) that Deca should be used for a bulking cycle and NPP for a cutting cycle BUT that a lot of people use Deca for cutting even though it's best for bulk.    

But that doesn't mean your not right. heck Sustenon is just Test - still I get a different reaction to it personally than just Test E or C. 

 

[SemperFi]

The only difference between Deca and NPP is the ester that is attached to it. Now... How they are used is subjective.

You are not going to gain any lean muscle mass in such a huge calorie deficit and it is going to be really tough to maintain what you have. My concern is that you are at a serious risk of losing lean muscle in such a significant calorie deficit. Based on your current body composition I would almost say muscle loss is a guarantee.

I want to be supportive and that is why I am being honest. Your current diet will make this cycle fail based on your stated goals. I recommend adjusting our diet or re-evalute your goal of "lasting gains".

Whatever path you choose to take I wish you absolute success!

 

SEMPER FI

 

[BobbyO190]

Thanks man. (Just for clarification isn't the point of Primo - primoteston -  to allow the body to keep and add muscle mass even in an extreme caloric deficit?) 

I think I will focus on a calorie deficit from now UNTIL cycle. Need to quit being a pansy about increasing cardio anyway.   Get my fat as much in line as I can (HA). Then try a cycle with higher calorie diet but focused on lean gains and some 'tightening' of the old bod!  

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[SemperFi]

</p><p>(Just for clarification isn't the point of Primo - primoteston -  to allow the body to keep and add muscle mass even in an extreme caloric deficit?) </p><p>

</p><p>Best of luck with the new plan! </p><p>Primobolan is a very good choice in a calorie deficit but it is not a wonder drug. I would say extreme deficit is exceeding it capabilities of preserving muscle mass. You will lose less for sure using it but in your case any loss defeats the purpose of the cycle. Primobolan will assist in muscle retention and increase protein synthesis but you have to have your diet on point to support its efforts to reap its true benefits.</p><p>Read up on nutrient timing, glycogenesis, gluconeogenesis and what being in a catabolic state means. The fewer calories you have to play with the more room for error. </p><p>I much prefer using much smaller surpluses or deficits anytime over larger owns to achieve my goals. I continually monitor my progress and make small adjusts in either direction to support my goals every 10-14 days.</p><p> </p><p>SEMPER FI</p><p> </p>

 

[blastthru23]

For me, to consume the calories needed in a surplus, I have to split the total cals into 6-7 meals. I also use baby oats so I don't have to cook them; I mix them raw with flavorless whey isolate and pure glucose for a single meal. Good stuff!

 

[blastthru23]

One can pretty much bulk or cut on any compound, just depends on whether you eat enough and effectively train. For me, tren kills my appetite so I keep it for a cutting phase. 

 

[blastthru23]

I go about diet similarly mostly adjusting carbs as needed. After awhile, I have become pretty tuned in to what this body needs. I do have a general plan outlined to keep on track nevertheless.

 

[blastthru23]

And, water. Drink around 1.5 to 2 Gallons per day. Stuff is vastly overlooked, keeps the body from holding water, really helps with mood too, among other health benefits.

 

[Griz]

Lasting gains. Limiting sides.

600mg of Test (the same ester you use to cruise with. Constantly switching test esters goes against your goal of lasting gains.)

To make lasting gains you need to maintain a caloric surplus and reset your body's default amount of musculature. Basically you start at 185, you gradually increase calories until you reach your desired weight. Then you hold that weight by continuing to eat at your new maintenance level. For several months. After a few months, your body will begin to harden up at that weight. You'll recomp. When your weight starts going down while eating the same amount of calories it took to reach that wright, you've reset your body to a new standard of mass. And those gains will last.

The biggest mistake I see on the forums is guys run a bulking cycle for 12 weeks and then cruise for 8-12 weeks, then start a cutting cycle. 12 weeks is not enough time to create lasting gains. You want to build 15+ pounds of legit tissue? Be prepared to eat a surplus of clean food for 12-18 months. Every day. This is why people don't get big. It's why there are very few Giants walking around. Eat 8-9 clean meals a day everyday for a year+ and the gains you make will stick. If you out on 20 pounds in a 4 month cycle of test Deca and DBol, you will lose basically all of it when your bulk stops. 1-2 pounds of muscle a month is a lot to put on and requires a different degree of dedication to diet than cutting does.

No excuses.

 

[blastthru23]

I completely agree. My maintenance calories increase every year after running a long cycle followed by a long cruise. I pretty much stay the same throughout the cruise except that I do drop some water after starting the cruise. I definitely hit a new set point each time. I tell folks to keep eating like they did on cycle but they never do, and wonder how I keep my gains and keep my "goal" between cycles. The answer is just too simple for them to grasp. This is why I say the cycle doesn't end when one stops running whatever stack; there's a marination period that is necessary to truly instantiate the new metabolic set point.

 

[SemperFi]

Great and true post. I was carrying more muscle this time last year and I cut my maintenance calories to a slight deficit. Continually adjusting until I reached where I wanted to be. No extreme deficits... Small adjustment s.

Crazy isn't it that a guy would want less muscle mass but I am very comfortable now at 206 and sub-8.

 

[BobbyO190]

Gotta admit. I would love more muscle mass but I more so want less fat. Trying to get below 10% is TOUGH. 

Griz, great advice and well written. Thank you! And thank you all!