TUDCA or Essentiale Forte?

[bmurphr1]

I made another post about this on another forum, but I have elevated liver enzymes and have had them for maybe a year or so now (even though I only started testosterone a few months ago).  I already take NAC, Omega-3s, and Silymarin for liver protection but I'm looking right now for a supplement or a drug that can actually help me lower my liver enzymes (AST and ALT) and so far I've looked into two different substances - TUDCA and Essentiale Forte.

Both of these drugs/supplements look like they provide the liver with gentle bile enzymes that are beneficial in helping the liver restore itself, and I'm wondering if one is better than the other, if they can be taken together, and if they will actually accomplish the lowering of liver enzymes in someone who already has elevated liver enzymes.  I should also note that I currently stay away from red meat and get all of my protein from fish, chicken, and turkey since they are leaner meats and aren't as harsh on the liver so I do watch my diet to start with so that I don't end up raising my AST and ALT enzyme levels up any higher than they are now.  I'm kind of hoping to leave a lot of the bro-science out of it and to see some empirical data on what these supplements do and how well they do them, but would greatly appreciate any input you guys might have on this as well as any tips and tricks you might have to get my liver enzymes back down into the normal range.  Thanks in advance!

 

[SemperFi]

Tudca (Tauroursodeoxycholic acid) is my choice. It is used in hospital setting for treating cholestasis. Cholestasis is a condition when the bile flow stops or slows from the liver.

I cannot compare the two because I have only used Tudca as it was recommended by a family member that is a physician.

NAC and Tudca combined should be sufficient for most individuals to correct liver enzymes even when taking a C17-aa anabolic steroid.

Do you have a health condition that you haven't disclosed? No prying... just curious.

SEMPER FI

 

[icdeadlifters]

</p><p>Tudca (<span style="color: #333333; font-family: 'Open Sans', sans-serif; font-size: 17px;">Tauroursodeoxycholic acid)</span><span style="font-size: 14px;"> is my choice. It is used in hospital setting for treating </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: 'Open Sans', sans-serif; font-size: 17px;">cholestasis. C</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: 'Open Sans', sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 17px;">holestasis is a condition when the flow bile stops or slows from the liver.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333; font-family: 'Open Sans', sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 17px;">I cannot compare the two because I have only used Tudca as it was recommended by a family member that is a physician.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333; font-family: 'Open Sans', sans-serif;"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: 'Open Sans', sans-serif;">NAC and Tudca combined should be sufficient for most individuals to correct liver enzymes even when taking a </span></span><span style="font-size: 14px;">C17-aa anabolic steroid</span></p><p><span style="color: #333333; font-family: 'Open Sans', sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 17px;">SEMPER FI</span></span></p><p>

. </p><p> </p><p>You know in Alaska and other bear states people hunt or poach the bear for the high tudca. That's why bears liver is sold on black market. </p>

 

[SemperFi]

If you need empirical data google is a good tool to use. I find that people learn better by finding the answer for themselves on occasion.

SEMPER FI

 

[bmurphr1]

I knew that there were bile bears and that they are basically kept in cages where they can't move and people drain bile from them multiple times a day and sell it as some eastern-type medicine...and I really hate the hell out of that.  I do understand that a lot of TUDCA on the market could come from these bears and while it does bother me, I can't really control where the raw product actually comes from so I just try to buy from reputable sources in hopes I'm not adding to that entire black market type crap.  I've probably googled TUDCA and Essentiale Forte for a solid 4-5 hours by now, and I see more people actually using TUDCA than Essentiale Forte, plus TUDCA is easily found on Amazon so I believe that I'm going to go with TUDCA to stack with the rest of my liver detox supplements.  I'm probably going to end up buying at least 240 pills, and I think that you take 3 capsules a day depending on which brand you go with so that's at least 80 days of TUDCA.  I'll still do a little bit more research on exactly what it does, and will definitely be trying out at least one or the other here very soon.  Thanks for the input my friends, and please keep the conversation going if you have anything else to add!

 

[swolesam]

this is v interesting especially for us AAS users who dabble into oral compounds which tend to be hepa toxic to some degree, depending on the compound ofcourse. My question is wether we should cycle on and off the liver supps or take it year round. I take milk thistle, l-glutathione , NAC and sometimes TUDCA. It bothers me that i dont log it in my records so basically i do 1 day on 1 day off or something like that. Now, im wondering if its a better practice to do liver supps 2 months on, 1 month off or something like that, i.e pulse it. What's y'alls opinion on that?

 

[bmurphr1]

I know from research that NAC and Silymarin/Milk Thistle can be taken pretty much 365 days a year but TUDCA you don't really want to run it every single day...just run it in courses like 6-8 weeks every so often because it can have an impact on your cholesterol and elevate it a bit.  I actually take Zetia for my cholesterol though and know that my overall cholesterol numbers are down to normal ranges because of it.  Zetia is freaking expensive though, and statins are also kind of rough on your liver too which is why I only take Zetia and not one of the drugs that has ezetimibe in combination with a statin.

 

[swolesam]

bmurph - awesome. ill cycle my TUDCA, and keep the thistle & NAC to weekly supplementation.

Bro, there is plenty of supps for cholestrol, why pay for zetia? supps like niacinamide, Plant Sterols, Guggul, and Red yeast rice. Give em a roll, im sure they will step up to the plate & serve you well like they have for me.

 

[bmurphr1]

I tried many supplements to lower my cholesterol, like red yeast rice and niacin, but my total cholesterol was still over 340 which is pretty bad.  I was on a statin for probably 9 months or so and when my primary care doctor ran my blood work we saw my liver enzymes were elevated and we knew that the statins that I was taking for my cholesterol lowered my total cholesterol but was damaging my liver.  Instead of continuing to take a statin for my cholesterol I switched over to Zetia, and it keeps my cholesterol well in check and doesn't harm my liver like statins do...I just have a sensitivity to statins.  Zetia is completely different from all of the statins though, and right now with their coupon I only pay a $25 copay every month for it.  Without the coupon I'd be paying around $130-140 per month for it even with my insurance but because they have a permanent coupon I only pay 25 bucks a month for the stuff.  I have an okay diet and I don't eat any red meat any more which helps with the liver enzymes and such, but I guess that my body just has a bad time with cholesterol.  I should also mention that I don't have a gallbladder any more since it had to be removed about 4 years or so ago and since then is when my cholesterol issues started happening.

 

[swolesam]

goes to show you how much the healthcare sucks in this country, i mean $130 per month just for cholestrol meds, INSANE! Good thing you have these copays bro.

Yea, natural supps can go do so much, and since you mentioned the gallbladder removal, somethings causing ur cholestrol to shoot up high, and your body not being able to "metabolize" it. Sorry to hear that brother, but if zeita does it for you and for a measly $25 per month, why the fuck not!

 

[icdeadlifters]

</p><p>this is v interesting especially for us AAS users who dabble into oral compounds which tend to be hepa toxic to some degree, depending on the compound ofcourse. My question is wether we should cycle on and off the liver supps or take it year round. I take milk thistle, l-glutathione , NAC and sometimes TUDCA. It bothers me that i dont log it in my records so basically i do 1 day on 1 day off or something like that. Now, im wondering if its a better practice to do liver supps 2 months on, 1 month off or something like that, i.e pulse it. What's y'alls opinion on that?</p><p>

. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>They say that the best tudca % is in the Asiatic bear</p>

 

[icdeadlifters]

</p><p>If you need <span style="font-size: 14px;">empirical data google is a good tool to use. I find that people learn better by finding the answer for themselves on </span>occasion<span style="font-size: 14px;">.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 14px;">SEMPER FI</span></p><p>

.  </p><p> </p><p>I don't feel like finding big ass bear to find out..</p>

 

[SemperFi]

Lost me on that one.

Are you down the rabbit hole again?

SEMPER FI

 

[bmurphr1]

TUDCA seems to (hopefully) be doing its job.  I've decided that since TUDCA can't be used the entire year that I will take an entire bottle every 3-4 months or so to keep my liver enzyme levels down.  Strangely it looks exactly like the same capsules that I get in my NAC bottle from another manufacturer and has me worried that the stuff might be bunk, but it gets excellent reviews on Amazon.com and has been purchased by at least 500+ people.  I'll find out for sure though next month when I have my labs done again.  I really hope my AST and ALT values have fallen on this lab cycle since this stuff ain't cheap...I think I paid around $40-45 for 60 250mg capsules shipped.

EDIT:  It was only $30...I forgot I found the Nutricost version which is cheaper and comes with 60 capsules, and I take two per day.

 

[blastthru23]

Back in the day (waayyyy back), i used to do a lot of cleansing of the liver. By the time I was 21, i had ingested so much toxic chemicals, my liver was "overactive" according to Chinese Medicine. I did a number of liver cleanses involving diet and some nasty tasting herbal concoctions. One that worked well for the gallbladder, liver, and blood is a syrup i made with yellow dock root, and blackstrap molasses it is made with 1 oz. of dry yellow dock root, and 1/2 cup of molasses. First, make a tea with the root. Place the dry root in a cup of water, bring to a boil, and reduce heat to a simmer. Reduce to 1/2 cup, then add another 1/2 cup and reduce to 1/4 cup. Strain the infusion into a jar. Add the molasses and stir to mix the two ingredients. Take one tablespoon every morning. Adding the juice of one lemon to 16 oz of water and drinking it with your syrup adds a little kick to the cleansing process, mostly for the liver. There is, however, one drawback to this syrup, namely, its quite high in iron, which may promote red blood cell production, as this syrup is also used for anemia. Both yellow dock and molasses are high in iron.

Another mild cleanse I did was to take 1 tablespoon of olive oil and the juice of one squeezed lemon in an empty stomach every morning for 7 days was rather effective as well.