HCG usage

milkin

Moderator

  • Hoping every is familiar with what HCG is and the importance of it presence when cycling. Have been seeing a lot of cycles where HCG isn't even mentioned. This little piece below is a good short read that is most informative. The actual dosages will need to be taylored. A good baseline is 500ui/week so 250ui twice a week is what most do.

  • If your boys continue to shrink, you can up the dosage or frequency. HCG, or Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin, is a peptide hormone which can be useful to bodybuilders who suffer from testicular atrophy whilst on cycle. It was once commonly used during PCT in the belief it will aid testosterone restoration, however this is flawed due to its mechanism action. The drug mimics the effects of LH in the body, stimulating the Leydig cells to produce testosterone in the testes. This can be fruitful in rectify existing, or avoiding testicular atrophy on cycle.

  • It will not aid the process of recovery in the post cycle phrase however, as the drug will bring about heightened oestrogen levels due to the greater aromatising of the testosterone being produced in the testes, thus bringing about greater inhibition of the HPTA. It is therefore wise to use HCG for rectify existing, or avoiding testicular atrophy on cycle, and possibly prior to PCT to help bring the testes back up to condition so they are more effective at producing testosterone.

  • We should leave about a week prior to PCT, with any HCG administration occurring before this. It is wise to use HCG in smaller frequent amounts over the course of two weeks to help minimise side effects and give more fruitful results. This is usually accompanied by nolvadex at 20-40mg each day to avoid oestrogen related side effects becoming pronounced due to the greater aromatisation occurring. 500-1000IU over a two week period should prove effective interms of results and minimising oestrogen related side effects.


                                                                              The "When to use"  Debate


This is one of the most debatable topics I have ever seen with both sides standing their ground for what they believe. I am a firm believer of PREVENTION and with that being said, I present my case as to why HCG is better ran during a cycle rather then after. Everyone’s opinion should be used for research purposes and hopefully help you make your own decision for a HCG protocol. I am not here to start a debate and I certainly respect everyone’s input, I am merely contributing to this forum with my opinion. I do however see logic on both sides, but still feel that the benefits in running HCG during a cycle out weigh running it post cycle. And here’s why:


 I will present a few known facts to hopefully shed some light on those who may be uncertain when to run HCG.


Luteinizing hormone (LH) is a hormone produced by the anterior pituitary gland. In females, an increase of LH triggers ovulation where as in men an increase in LH stimulates the production of testosterone (T). For this discussion, we shall reference LH levels in men. When T levels increase, it creates a negative feedback loop and inhibits the release of LH. So more T = less LH = less T production.


Testosterone must first aromatize into estrogen before it can inhibit the release of LH. This further dramatized the need to keep your E2 in check not only for visible related sides like bloat & acne, but for hidden reasons such as hogging free-T, LH suppression, and fluctuation SHGB values to name a few. This is another topic which can be researched in the forums. (Or Keyword estrogen)


 FACTS


1-    LH stimulates the production of testosterone. Therefore, High T levels = low LH levels = low T production.


2-HCG is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.


3- HCG helps to PREVENT testicular non-responsiveness or atrophy. Atrophy is the wasting away of a body part and that definition doesn’t sound to comforting to me. So the keyword here is PREVENT which we will tie in later in this discussion.


 4- The longer the cycle, the greater chance testicular atrophy will occur.


 So here’s the million dollar question. Why would you allow your testes to atrophy by electing NOT to run HCG during a cycle ? IMO


PREVENTION is and would much rather avoid this from occurring rather then having to deal with correction it at cycle end. Plus, when used as PCT, HCG suppressed the recovery of LH production. Sure you are “Kick starting” your T production but what about your natural LH production? You are further stuffing its recovery down a few more weeks. I would rather leave the “Kick Starting” to the SERMS and let them do their job. Remember, Serms like clomid and nova have the ability to stimulate the release of LH thus initiating the production of testosterone. It’s how they work and why they are used for PCT purposes. (Also use during cycles, but that’s another forum)


 Now on the flip side yes I would use HCG at the start of PCT if for some reason or the other atrophy has occurred during my cycle. When entering recovery mode you want to be playing with a full deck and that translates to plum healthy testicles that are ready to start doing their job again.


So in conclusion, utilizing HCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent atrophy thus avoiding the post cycle crash period.

 

siegmund

Moderator

Milkin like,, wouldnt run without it anymore ,,had the boy problems also, :( ,,no more ,sucks waking up in the morning ,,thinking the boys got kidnapped,, or when the better half,, wants to visit the boys,, and there not home lol been there ..its a must

 

Bash

New member

I hate to bump such an old topic but this hs helped out in my search for hcg info leading into this next cycle..  Ive never run hcg but will be using it this run and leaning more towards also running hcg throughout my cycle.. My cycle will be 18 weeks long and have seen a study where it is best to inject 1 hcg injection of 500-1000ius per week as opposed to 2-3 throughout the week. Wondering if anyone has also heard of this and validity to it?

Some guys prefer to blast it at the end of a cycle but it makes sense to me to keep the balls working throughout the cycle as well and plan to run it throughout my cycle but wondering if 500iu will be enough per week..  What's everyone's take on hcg?? 

 

Kfizzle

New member

Yeah 500 is good, might as well just pin it twice a week tho. Maybe same days as your long esters. I would say it wouldn't be needed until about week 4 if running long esters... unless you are kickstarting with prop then I would say week 2 or 3 would be good to start. 

 

Outlawthing

Member

So does hcg simply fix your testicles appearance  while on cycle or does it actually make them produce sperm even in the presence of testosterone  

 

Kfizzle

New member

I would say it most definitely increases the volume a of semen quite a bit,  not sure about the production of sperm but you would think that goes hand in hand... maybe I should word that different lol nah.  

 

deluxe

New member

Thanks for bumping this Bash, it's a great read. I've been thinking about the same thing, that is of starting it early in the cycle and maybe running into the first week of PCT and that's it.

 

Bash

New member

I found the forum I found this from.  It's a long read but I'll copy/paste the part I was referring to:

uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/54401-hcg-mixing-storing-dosing/

From my latest research (taken from a recent article by the Endocrinology Society) i am now using and advocating the protocol of 1000iu injected once weekly.

 

Here is the science behind this protocol:

An in vivo injection or an episode of LH secretion induced by GnRH, results in stimulation of the side-chain cleavage enzyme with the subsequent release of testosterone within 30-60 minutes of LH stimulation. The acute response to an injection of LH is dramatic in some species such as the rat and the ram but is much more attenuated in the human. This testosterone response lasts approximately 24-48 hours. If human chorionic gonadotrophin is used as an LH substitute, the kinetics of the initial stimulation are similar to LH but a second peak of testosterone secretion is evidence with hCG and occurs 48-72 hours after the initial injection. This biphasic pattern has been attributed to the observation that between 24 and 48 hours after an LH or hCG injection, the Leydig cells are refractory to further stimulation by either hormone. The second phase of testosterone secretion after hCG but not LH is associated with the longer half-life of hCG in comparison to LH. The hCG levels persist in the circulation and, following recovery from the refractoriness, testosterone levels increase. This observation has significant clinical importance since, in many men, a single weekly injection of hCG will suffice to maintain optimum testosterone responses rather than the frequent practice of giving injections of hCG two to three times per week.

 

The stimulation of leydig cells with large amounts of hCG rapidly reduces their number of receptors, this phenemenom is termed down-regulation.

Although these changes decrease testosterone levels to just above diurnal maxima 24-48hrs after initial injection repeated stimulation does not yield the same results.

A single injection of hCG is followed by a long steroidogenic response characterized by two phases of testosterone secretion.

Studies show that this second phase which can last as long as 8 days can increase testosterone in plasma by 2.2 x above maximal diurnal secretion even though hCG is no longer present in plasma.

The results indicate that hCG injections can be given every 6-7 days due to the prolonged steroidogenic response.

It is advisable to start this protocol around week 2-3 in the cycle and continue till the start of PCT.

 

Apex Peptides

New member

Excellent bump! Too many people seem to feel as though HCG on cycle is optional. I personally feel as though it should be run on every cycle. It seems to make that transition to PCT much smoother.

 

Apex Peptides

New member

Good post Nytex. I think too many people underestimate the importance of HCG whether they're cycling or on TRT. HCG really need to be implemented whenever exogenous T is being used for extended periods of time.

 

swolesam

Member

Great Post !! Very useful info

When on-cycle, HCG is a staple for me. As a matter of fact, i wouldnt start the cycle until i have HCG in hand. Wouldnt want to start cycle, and have any dissapointments acquiring hcg.

I've been on TRT for about 5 years, but when im on-cycle, i am basically on-cycle :)  When im done w/ cycle 12, 16 or 20 weeks , i do a period of intensified PCT for about 2-4 weeks, then straight into TRT regimen which is therapeutic doses.

 

swolesam

Member

Great Post !! Very useful info

When on-cycle, HCG is a staple for me. As a matter of fact, i wouldnt start the cycle until i have HCG in hand. Wouldnt want to start cycle, and have any dissapointments acquiring hcg.

I've been on TRT for about 5 years, but when im on-cycle, i am basically on-cycle :)  When im done w/ cycle 12, 16 or 20 weeks , i do a period of intensified PCT for about 2-4 weeks, then straight into TRT regimen which is therapeutic doses.

 

ramdisck

Member

I run HCG through my entire cycle too. I've ran a cruise for a couple months to finish off some Winny and decreased frequency and amount, but still hit some HCG, it really helps recovery IMO. Like milkin said though, I use it for prevention. I am not going to wait until I'm crashing my truck to snap a seatbelt on.  I put it on before i head out.

 

Outlawthing

Member

I will prob use hcg the rest of my life been on it for six months now at 1000 iu eod and it has made my Boys drop like it was hot. Sperm count went from 300,000 with none none moving to 20 million with 5 million moving so it works for sure I don't imagibe such a high dose is needed  for replacement therapy  this proocol is super aggressive for fertility  this is with my trt shot every week so that would leave me to believe that it is also benificial on cycle  I went to 1000 iu Ed for a week before my last fertility test to see if more is better  it made me super horney I can tell you that much 

 

swolesam

Member

outlaw - you must have been humping the walls and anything that moved! LOL 

When i do 800 iu per week split into two 400 iu shots, im horny as F*&king hell !!! I can imagine 1000 iu DAILY !? ill prob drop dead with a hard on that wont go away LOL!

 

musselman

New member

Good read.. too bad most are sold in 5000 iu instead of smaller amps.. I saw some 1500iu amps.. still not sure if I would want to use 1500iu or keep the rest for the next dose

 

blastthru23

Moderator

I like to get 10,000 iu and reconsitute. It's hella cheap, and u can use it throughout a cycle. Keep dem ballz from shrinkin

 
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