Beginner - Cycle Length / End Cycle Cut Questions

[AtlasShrugged]

I have a few questions, but think it might be easier to lay everything out to give a more complete picture first.  I'm planning on doing a 12 week Test E 500mg/wk (250mg Sun/Thur) cycle and have Arimidex on hand and Clomid and Nolvadex for PCT.  But I also picked up Winstrol Depot (9mL/450mg) and Anavar (50pills/500mg).  My thought was to do a Test only cycle to feel out my body's response for the first 1-10 weeks, but then add the Winstrol and Anavar at the end.  

My first question is any thoughts on adding those somewhere at the end?  I know it goes against the Test only first cycle rule but given I've taken stacked Test cycles without problem in the past (12 years ago) and the majority of the cycle being just Test E I thought it wasn't unreasonable.   

My second question is I got three (3) 10mL Test E 250mg/mL and the 12 week cycle described about would only require 6,000mg, leaving me with 1,500mg or 6mL.  I seem to have a few options: 1) increase the cycle length 2) increase the mg/wk 3) do nothing and save for next cycle.  Just curious what you all think would be the best use in my situation.  

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[milkin]

1. Adding either of the compounds, at cycle end, is not uncommon at all Shrugged since they both make for good hardeners. Many will also run n the front end but with your current BF, either of these  will offer much benefit. Personally, I would try to pull my BF down in the teens. 


2. Since you have experience with Test cycles, and sides are manageable, I would bump my dosage up after the third week then drop it back down somewhere around week 8. Increase your cycle length to twelve weeks, we don't like to leave gear laying around too long once it has been drawn from.  

 

[siegmund]

Stats and cycle history I ask this because ,for a propper layout of cycle , we need to know bf% ,I looked in profile your 27% ,I believe you should get down to 15% bf before ,safely being able to run even t agion with minimum sides

 

[AtlasShrugged]

My profile currently has 23%, but that was an estimate.  I'm estimating I'm in the low 20's given I have a slight bit of fat around my midsection.  I'll try to get a more accurate assessment done in the near future.  Dropping my bf% is my current focus and I'm not starting the cycle until it's at a level which makes it worthwhile.  

 

[AtlasShrugged]

Thanks, Milkin.  I'll make some changes to my spreadsheet to use up the gear.  Makes perfect sense to not leave gear once its been drawn from.  If I did 12 weeks of Test, increasing weeks 3-8, when would you add the Winstrol and Anavar?  And at what frequencies?

 

[siegmund]

OK if it were me, I'd get my bf down to at least 17-18% at least 15% is preferable ,then I would treat this cycle as if it were my first ,12 years is a long time and MANY things change with our bodies in a year of two never mind 12, 

I'm am a firm believer ,and its proven if diet and training ain't in check ,gear is useless ,we have very anabolic piss,so I'm not for raising the mg of your dose 250mg2×w is more than sufficient, to be honest you can probley do 400w and have results .

As far as the orals ,I highly recommended ,waiting ,your hpta is going to take a hit ,even on t ,so I'd wait till next cycle.

As far as the adex I find .25 e3d works great for me but this is something your going to have to find your sweet spot with. 

And as far as pct, I know the propper protocol but I'm trt ,and I choose not to comment on something I have no personal exp.with good luck bro

Also 10 w is plenty myself for me I prefer 12 w but that's also my sweet spot

 

[milkin]

• The lower your Bf the better results either of these compounds will yield. Winny depot will require ED pokes so if you are not use to this frequency then I would recommend putting it off for a future cycle. After a few weeks of this you will feel like a human pin cushion for sure.


• If you are having really good results and your BF is mid teens, then you can throw var in the toward the end of your cycle to harden up and get them veins popping. 50mg/day in the final four will do it. BF is key so don't run a compound just because you have it, run it for the correct reasons.


• Remember, you can cut on Test only cycles because your diet determines your outcome. 

More info on compounds can be found here

Your AI and PCT will need to be discussed once you have mapped out your cycle.

 

[AtlasShrugged]

I'll have an updated BF% this weekend.  And it sounds like an effective amount of Anavar is 50mg/day for 3-4 weeks and Winstrol Depot is 50mg/mL ED for 2-3 weeks.  Given I would only have enough Anavar to go 10 days and Winstrol 9 days it seems best to save for next cycle and just go with Test E.

Should I increase from 500mg/wk to 750mg/wk for weeks 3-8 for a 12 week cycle or just do 500mg/wk for 15 weeks, so I don't waste any gear?  

I'm planning on starting PCT 15 days after my last pin and doing Day 1: 200mg Clomid, 60mg Nolvadex Next 3 days: 100mg Clomid, 40mg Nolvadex Next 10: 50mg Clomid, 20mg Nolvadex Next 10: 20mg Nolvadex.

Thoughts?  Thanks for the help.

 

 

[milkin]

Good thinking, save the var and winny for future cycles. As for the T dose, that is something you will have to gauge yourself based on your sides. Starting @ 250mg x2/week will be your starting point and you can slowly increase if you feel your sides are manageable. I would rather add 3 weeks on to my 12 week cycle then have to deal with sides so use good judgment before bumping up your dosage. Remember, more is not better so let training and diet lead the way and use this cycle to learn how well your body processes the compound. Keep a log on everything like gains, sides, AI tuning, dosage changes, and diet info.

Your PCT needs work buddy, read this. https://musclegurus.to/forum/anabolic-steroids/post-cycle-therapy/75185-understanding-pct

 

[AtlasShrugged]

Great PCT write-up, Milkin.  I appreciate the link.  I took that PCT dosage from the sticky post: Beginners Guide to Steroid Cycles by CrazyMonkey.  I will be sure to follow the Clomid 100/100/50/50  + Nova (Tamoxifen) 40/40/20/20 you described.  And I think I'll just keep a steady state 500mg/wk for 15 weeks and begin the PCT 14 after the last pin.

I realize I'm getting ahead of myself, but now it looks like need to buy more Clomid and Nolvadex and have some Winstrol Depot and Anavar, so I thinking about getting the gear ready my next cycle already HA.  Do you have a link to a good Test P / Winstrol / Anavar cycle you like?  Or a shorter cycle that utilizes Winstrol and Anavar?    

 

[milkin]

Being prepared is mandatory so make certain you have all your cycle needs in hand and ready to go. Keep your eye out for source promo's, that the time to stock up and be sure to leave reviews ! See how this cycle shakes out before considering the next one and be certain to keep a log.

 

[AtlasShrugged]

Thanks for all the advice.  

 

[Standingup]

I havent looked at your profile to see your age, but the body fat thing is not as strict of a rule as you get older. Of course it requires a more aggressive AI dose, but you may find the incresed test was exactly what you needed to loose the fat in the first place.

  As far as winny or var, leave it all alone till your second cycle. Reason being you want to milk out your bodys response to just test as long as possible. If you can make great gains on test keep it that way for as long as possible.

 

[Standingup]

Hmmm , 30 yrs old ?  Yeah you should be able to loose a little more fat first.  Try a hard core no carb diet for 3 weeks before you cycle. Then once on cycle add carbs back in to your diet in the form of clean complex carbs like beans and oatmeal.