Carbohydrates: Wrapping my head around GI, and GL

[blastthru23]

During the next 22 days (plus the previous 6 days), I'm practicing nutrient timing with respect to my diet, and consequently, meal planning/timing.  I'm seeking to get a more solid understanding of carbohydrates, and the resulting blood glucose levels upon and and after consumption. I want to know how this relates to training times, and off days, thus how to optimize carbohydrate intake to achieve fitness goals, and a healthy life in general. Besides, we all overlook our most anabolic substance FOOD. Therefore, I'm taking some time to get this shit down.

I've been spending some time looking into common foods we eat, and their respective glycemic indices and loads.  To start, let me define, in simple terms, each of these aspects of carbohydrate sources. The glycemic index relates to how fast blood glucose levels raise once a food is consumed. The glycemic load is the amount of carbohydrates in a serving of a [carb] source, and to a degree tells us how long the carbohydrate will be available as energy, or to be stored as fat. GL is calculated by the serving size of your carb source then divided by 100. These are the numbers that tell us the glycemic attribute of a given food:

Glycemic Load:

High (a lot of carb): 20+ 

Moderate: 11-19

Low: 10>

Glycemic Index

High (fast acting carbs): 70+ (examples: white rice, rice flour, white potato, sweet potato)

Moderate: 56-69  (examples: brown rice, honey)

Low: 55> (quinoa, oats)

 

 To be clear, let's say I consume 150g of white rice, which has a GI of 72, and a GL of 20. This tells me that I will get a good insulin spike because the GI is high, and will result in a quick blast of energy. Hopefully, I will use the carbs for energy, otherwise, guess what, it'll go to storage. On the other hand, let's say I consume 250g of oats, which has a GI of about 47 and a GL of 13. Here, we have a moderate GI, and a moderate GL. This tells me that the energy from oats will last awhile, though not necessarily raising insulin to such a level that it will get shuttled into fat, so long as I am active. 

When should I eat a certain carbohydrate source?  It may depend greatly on anticipated activity level, and as a secondary consideration, what my goal is. For me, as a result of my northern European genetics (and I am fast on the approach to 50), I store energy quite readily, thus I have to be careful as to what I consume and when. My goal is almost primarily to keep fat storage to a minimum. It seems to me that the first meal ought to have a fast acting carb to restore energy quickly, (all of the following meals will have to adapt to one's training period) the second, third and fourth meals, a slower acting carb to sustain energy up through my training period (meal 4 is consumed roughly an hour or less from training time).  Then the post workout meal should be at least 20g of a fast carb (white rice flour, and tapioca flour have a mean GI of 90, the GL is therefore 18) to restore glycogen, spike insulin to nourish the muscle tissue and organs (of course 30g+ protein, and little to no fat). The final meal of the day, or Meal 6, in most cases ought to have little to no carbs since the body will be sleeping, therefore no need for carbs here (unless carb cycling and it's a re-feed day).

If I missed something, please chime in. 

 

 

 

[SemperFi]

Keep rolling... looks like you are diving into something that you love to do Blast. I can't believe how far you have come in a short time concerning diet, training and nutrients. It is awesome to see and you keep doing what you are doing. It is obvious you are enjoying it and I want you to maximize that enjoyment. The amount of knowledge you are gaining will not go to waste.

I have had to take a step back from all the studying and research because I have found that less is becoming more. I am beginning to simplify things more in my life. Especially where it relates to AAS, diet and training because I want to help as many people as I possibly can. The more simple that I can make if for myself the easier it will be for others to follow the example. It's not dumbing down my passion just a new way of looking at it.

We need people like you to carry the torch forward and continue to progress in knowledge, education and experience.

 

SEMPER FI

 

[SemperFi]

Do you have sleep apnea? Or restless sleep?

 

SEMPER FI

 

[ESmetalhead]

Godamn scientist in our midst!  Thanks for sharing 

possibly the no carbs in the evening might help with GH secretion

 

[ESmetalhead]

Nope, why?

 

[SemperFi]

Because you mentioned GH secretion. Restless sleep or untreated sleep apnea will hinder gh release as well as test production. 

 

SEMPER FI

 

[ESmetalhead]

I see, no I go right to sleep I have a bad habit of waking up right at 4 if im stressed about one thing or another, but I mostly sleep sound but still wake up grumpy anyway

 

[SemperFi]

Some of us were just born assholes. The rest of us were taught.

 

SEMPER FI

 

[ESmetalhead]

Oh yeah I'm a natural

 

[blastthru23]

I do actually love researching things; I like to know and understand  the notions, concepts, and theories behind nutrition.  At first, I just go with the party line, or something of that nature.  But, I can only do that for so long lest I go nuts.  Just have know why I am doing something.  It's even more fun when I put something together and it works. Further, we've all heard that diet is 90% of the battle, however, most of that 90% is due to lack of understanding why we are doing it.  Also, practice makes perfect, so I keep practicing researching, then experimenting.  Tomorrow, or later this evening, I'll report on the new diet I'm going with.  I like it, and the timing seems to work pretty well. But, I think it needs tweaking a little. I figure that once I've done it (nutrient timing approach) for a while (hopefully) by the end of this four-week period, the notion will become routine. The gear part is easy, research it (again, hopefully one knows what they may be getting into), buy the stuff, then pin it. Then training is just hard work, focus and determination, though planning and understanding which movements do what, though I'm sure folks do fine just plain working hard with minimal planning.  However, diet is the most important in my view. To understand the body's need for nutrients and how much to feed it, and even when to feed it is very important.  It's also very complex. When I eat, I have to know why I'm eating it, and after time I'll understand the compatibility and synergy between the macros...One step at a time.  Writing it all down here helps me get the ideas on "paper."  When I write it, it gets engraved into my brain.  Then I can go back and refresh my recollection reading it again here on MG.  Hella fun, my friend Hopefully it serves as a useful tool for someone else.  That's what I hope for more than anything else.

I once had the unique opportunity to study under Paul Pitchford, who wrote Healing With Wholefoods, even helped edit the index.  I think that's part of the passion. I went pretty deep with that whole trip; and when I was doing that trip, the diet I was doing at the time worked splendidly.  What we eat truly affects our daily view of the world.  Now, its not only what and why, but when and why.

This whole thing is fun.  Diet, training techniques, and aas. One can get really deep into it, but I do believe a passion underlies the efforts. 

 

[blastthru23]

on the relationship between insulin and GH. If you want to just get to the answer, scroll down to "Growth Hormone and IGF-1", second paragraph. In the last section "Making the best of things" gives us a little morsel on morning timing, and I may have it wrong.  It appears that eating protein and fat, no carbs first thing upon waking is better.  I'll let the author of the article do the explaining. 

Wonder if any of you agree or disagree...

 http://www.eattoperform.com/2013/03/16/human-growth-hormone-and-insulin-are-friends/

 

[SemperFi]

</p><p>It appears that eating protein and fat, no carbs first thing upon waking is better.  </p><p>

</p><p> </p><p>One of the founding principles behind a well established keto diet. </p><p>Example - My average breakfast consists of something like 2 whole eggs, up to 4 egg whites, 8oz Elk burger and protease enzyme to assist absorption. Total- 78g protein and 19g fat. I drink 16oz of H2O upon waking and then again 30 minutes before I eat. My first meal protein/fat ratio is skewed fcompared to the remainder of my day because I like to get loaded up on protein first thing in the morning.</p><p>The author understands the principle clearly based on what he states in the article. Our bodies are in fat utilization for energy at the end of our sleep cycle but the minute we ingest carbs we disrupt that cycle. That is why fasted cardio first thing after a sleep cycle is an effective tool to use to burn stored fat.</p><p>Keto dieters do not experience multiple insulin spikes throughout the day like the high carb dieters do. In general a keto diet will make you more insulin sensitive and assist in avoiding much of the insulin resistance that high carb dieters experience. This makes the less frequent insulin spikes, properly timed, much more effective (in principle) than the combination of multiple spikes throughout the day of a high carb dieter.</p><p>Provided because the author used the term in the article and I wanted to clarify - Gluconeogenesis<strong style="color: #222222; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> </strong>is a metabolic pathway that results in the generation of glucose from <strong>non-carbohydrate</strong> carbon substrates such as lactate, glycerol, and glucogenic amino acids. - SOURCE- Wiki Books</p><p> </p><p>SEMPER FI</p><p> </p><p> </p>

 

[Dolf]

It's rarely mentioned, but keto can be used as a bulking diet also. Eat in a surplus while in keto will add lean mass. However eating in a surplus would be challenging because fats are very filling, and slow to digest. 

 

[Dolf]

+2 blast...very useful info. Many people read anout and follow a diet plan, but have no idea why they're esting certsin foods at certain times. One diet many comp individuals do is no carbs after 2pm. Your write up on gi and gl gives good info on the why.

 

[blastthru23]

I have to amend my "timing" plan a little to accommodate this new piece of information, namely, taking carbs out of the first meal.  Good thing I write in pencil (yes, I still write it all out and pin it to the wall over the prep area in the kitchen).  I'll keep the calories the same for meal one, and add fat, most likely coconut oil.  Meal one is whey isolate with oats and some dextrose for carb sources. Now, it'll be whey isolate, a bit of stevia, and some fat.  Ain't nothing like getting a project dialed in. They say, if it ain't broke don't fix it, but, even if it isn't broken, we should ask ourselves, "can work better if I alter this or that?"  The pain of being unsatisfied may be in turn be the joy of making something better."

 

[blastthru23]

Knowledge is power! Btw, Dolf, you were inspirational force behind this endeavor. It all started with the glucose vs. sucrose conversation a few weeks ago. Gotta give credit where credit is due

 

[blastthru23]

Midnight snacking would likely kill the GH secretion as well since the snack would call on insulin to take care of business.

 

[Dolf]

Blast keep in mind that's for a keto diet. If you're not keto then spiking insulin first thing in the morning is advantageous. If dieting with carbs spiking insulin upon waking, and post workout is when you want insulin spikes. There a many many ways to diet. They are all very affective. The key is finding which works best for you, and is easiest to stick too. No use in starting a diet that you'll fail to complete. I like keto because it's eady for me to do. It's everything I love most to eat, and I'll bet SF will tell you the same. That's also why I like a moderate carb low fat diet with no carbs at dinner or afterwards. It's easy for me to stick to, and both are effective for me.

 

[Dolf]

Haha...it's all you brotha! You're putting in tons of leg work. I'm kinda like SF. KISS...Keep It Simple Stupid...when I over complicate things I tend to forget the basics. 

 

[Dolf]

Many pro bodybuilders set their alarm to wake up middle of the night just to eat. This particular guy would eat a pb&j and drink a protein shake. Many factors change if you're bulking or cutting.