PIP causes and solutions. Taken from another board not my words

W

Warpedlifter

New member

Best information and post on PIP I've seen. 

What causes (non infection related) injection pain?

 

first the shorter the ester, the higher the melting point

secind, the concentration of the gear.

third, the solvents used.

fourth, injecting too quickly

fifth, virgin muscle.

 

Pain is caused when the oil/solvents are absorbed by the body and crystals are left behind.

Short esters (propionate or acetate) are harder, more painful crystals with melting points in the 100c range.

A hormone with a longer esters (excluding cypionate - cyp is long but also high melting point) can have a melting point in the 20c-40c range. not far off from human body temp.

 

Pain is also caused by concentration of your gear.

Building off of point 1: Let's say it takes the body 24 hours to absorb 1mL of a certain oil/solvent blend, and 24 hours to absorb 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. If 50mg (or less) of testosterone propionate is in 1mL of that oil, this injection should be painless. On the other hand, if 100mg of testosterone propionate is in that same 1mL of solution, then after 24 hours the body will have absorbed 50mg and 1mL, leaving 50mg behind in the injection area, crystalized and painful.

Its better to shoot 3mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate than 1mL of 150mg/mL Testosterone Propionate.

This is also why water based suspensions (Testosterone base/no ester, Winstrol ) hurt the most, water is very easily absorbed in the body

 

The solvents used can cause pain in 2 ways. Benzyl alcohol (BA) is used at 1%-2% as a preservative and antiseptic. If the alcohol content is too high the gear will burn. Pain in the first 24 hours is usually caused by heavy solvents, pain in the next few hours is usually cause by crystalization. Another way is a bad recipe. if someone used 2% BA, and the rest of the solution oil, the mg/mL would have to be low due to oil's weak ability to hold crystals. On the other hand, a recipe like 2% BA, 5% Guaiacol (super solvent), 10% Benzyl Salicylate (liquid asprin) with the filler split 50:50 between Ethyl Oleate (oil/solvent hybrid) and normal oil should be far less painful.

 

If you inject too quickly it can tear tissue.

 

If your muscle is new to the hormone, it will absorb the hormone very slowly, but absorb the oil/solvent very quickly. This will cause more crystalization and pain. As your muscles recognize the hormones, they will be absorbed more quickly, thus less pain. The deeper you inject into the center of a muscle group, the better.

 

How do I prevent pain before I inject?

 

Cut your shots 50:50 with sterile filtered oil. If you want to use 50mg of Testosterone Propionate, and you have 100mg/mL Testosterone Propionate- pull 0.5mL of your test prop, and 0.5mL of sterile filtered oil to shoot 1mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate. This is the #1 best way.

Dont bother with b-12, its water based- absorbed so quickly it will have little to no impact.

 

Before you shoot, it can help to warm your gear some (especially suspensions). You could put the vial in the bathroom sink and let hot water run over the vial for 2 minutes, and shake well. This will lower the oils viscosity also making it easier it pull into the syringe.

 

Inject slowly, take 30 seconds per mL. Use a 25g pin to inject so it forces you to move slowly.

 

If none of these work you could have dirty gear. Its possible there could be particles (although bacteriostatic) in the gear that are not causing infection, but still cause in site infection that made it through a filter.

 

How do I deal with pain once I have it?

 

The worst thing you can do is ice it. Cold will help the crystals fall out of solution/suspension.

Its okay to take some ibuprofin to decrease the swelling, and help with pain.

Also being in a hot tub, or jacuzzi, or warm bubble bath will help melt the crystals down. Using a heating pad can help also.

 
S

strong

Member

I like this post.

I don't feel running hot water on the bottle is the best way to heat it up. I wrap mine in a heating pad for 5 minutes and it draws and injects easier..

I would like to add that pip can occur with just plain old poor pinning. Once the needle is in and you start to inject, Keep that barrel as steady as possible and have at least 4 pin locations so you can give that muscle at least a week of rest before pinning again.  I go with 6 locations. Both delts, both pecs and both legs...

I always get a little pip because I love prop. and all short esters. If its bad I take a massage ball and work that area after warming it up with a heating pad..

 
Dolf

Dolf

Moderator

+3 strong

Imo poor technique is the culprit for most pip. Of course everyones pain tolerance is differnt too. What you might think is minor pip I might think is crippling. 

 
Dolf

Dolf

Moderator

+3 good post

I know you've long had issues with pip. I think some individuals are just more prone to it than others. I've pinned test p 100 & 150, npp 100 & 150, mast p 100, tren a 100, and currently pinning a blend of test p 50, mast p 100, and tren a 75 which equals 225mg per ml of short esters. The only time I ever get pip which is rarely is from poor technique. I have had crippling pip from poorly brewed test e. Swelling, pain, soreness, unable to bend my leg at the knee or squat down, and feel flu like sick for several days after the pin. I feel for those who suffer from constant pip.

 
S

strong

Member

I would give up on gear if all sources used EO.... Now that gives me crippling pip, Knotted up muscles and rash. I did a whole 14 week cycle once from a great source but all their gear has EO.... Nightmare...

 
K

Kielbasa_Posse

New member

How its made also effectives to some degree. A mix up in the solvents used can also cause this. I've seen it. I've ssen the BA,BB and some oils get mixed up and hello pip!!!

 
S

siegmund

Moderator

good post.  , sometimes we need to get back to the basics. , it keeps conversation and activity moving. . at the same time , along with knowledge locked away in the archives catching cobwebs.  ....i think i +2 this already.  if not +2.   

 
W

Warpedlifter

New member

For heating I actually take a frying pan. Put a little water in pan...like maybe so it comes up about an inch on vial. And turn on the stove. Once it's warm your good to go. With MCT oil it's not needed. For water based injectables (at least from my exp I had to do this every time cause they crashed). GSO is also very thick and this helps. 

Regarding PIP everyone doesn't react same way. I don't think it's a matter of pain tolerance. Those who don't or rarely get PIP can't understand.

For example my training partner and I can use EXACTLY the same gear. He won't get any pip. But I will.

Not all gear gives me pip. I found MCT oil almost completely eliminates it.

Moral of story is some people are more sensitive to it than others. Find what works for you and stick with it. Lots of labs and options to choose from. And if you happen to be a lucky one who can shoot anything....more power to you lol.

 
W

Warpedlifter

New member

Not sure what your referring to. I made all my latest home brews with MCT oil and nothing else except BA and BB. Almost zero pip even in the troublesome quads. And that's with shorter esters. 

A gentleman on another board said prop made with MCT completely eliminates pip for him so I tried it and it worked.

Another lab I previously used had a 50/50 gso/safflower blend which was also pip free even with prop.

Pure GSO however kills me lol.

 
S

SwellMel

New member

I would agree with Dolf, most pain comes from improper PIN techniques unfortunately based upon experience over the years.  This is what I have found and I believe very accurate.

1. Poor/improper location.

2. Surprisingly, too short of a PIN (1"), use longest needle possible (1.5" or 2") to inject in to IM.  

3. Inject slowly.

4. Last, sensitivity to carrier oil.  If this occurs, purchase Cottonseed oil online (food or pharma grade) in 10 or 20 ML bottles and cut with that each pin, this typically reduces the concentration.

 
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