FYI- Third generation AI's can cause pain like symptoms.
nature.com/ncomms/2014/141208/ncomms6736/abs/ncomms6736.html
All of the research studies that I have read are related to doses taken by breast cancer patients and not related to AAS users. A simple google research will provide many research studies linking AI's and pain related symptoms.
SEMPER FI
I am certain that it must be massive to the levels that it almost "kills" of all chances of estrogen exposure.
I wonder though if the same chances of pain symptoms can be experienced at regular lower doses? On TRT I take .5mg Adex E3D year round and I am curious to know if some of the reoccurring joint pain is related to it's use.
SEMPER FI
Why would you take Arimdex year round? Just dont do it. If you want a break down why id me more than happen to write something up..
However, if you 50 and older you dont need Armidex or any type of estrogen blocker in the Type 1 or Type 2 inhibitors.
Just Take proviron 50-75mg ED. Have an questions send IM.
haha, are you recommending Proviron as a REPLACEMENT for AI ?1?! And do you recommend proviron 50-75mg ED year round?!?! Research Proviron and Suppression. Also google Proviron and Estrogen inhibition. While you're at it, search for high estro sensitive males and proviron use.
SMH!!
I am not questioning the intention but I have to question the advice without clear reasoning to explain it.
Brother Zewi please help us out here. If you have some knowledge and experience that we don't please share it openly for the benefit of the entire community.
Thanks in advance.
SEMPER FI
he is over 50 did you see what i wrote?
But ill be more than happy to help out..
Lets first Understand SHBG(the sex-hormone-binding-globulin): SHBG is aprotein that binds tightly to the hormonestestosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and estradiol (estrogen ). It serves as a transport carrier, shuttling estrogen and testosterone to sex hormone receptorsthroughout your body.
Since SHBG binds to and temporarily prevents anabolic/androgenic steroids from activating their receptors. The higher the percentage of unbound steroid in the blood, the more active the steroid is going to be in the body. Given that Proviron binds to SHBG so strongly, perhaps more strongly that any commercial steroid known, it may displace other steroids that also like to bind this protein. With Proviron beating the other molecules to the seat, so to speak, it is forcing a greater percentage to remain in a free (active) state.
Proviron: Is a DHT derivative, which means it does not convert to estrogen. However, it does have estrogen blocking capabilities.
Provrion reduces the aromatization of testosterone.(Slows the process of Test converting to Estro) Which will allow there to be more free test. Proviron also helps keep estrogen levels under control, which means, it can help with your AI, or if it is not that heavy a cycle like a test only cycle, it could be used as your AI and you get the extra benefits of Proviron.
Because Provrion acts as an anti-aromatase in the body, preventing and slowing the conversion of test into estrogen that not only includes your cycle, BUT YOUR VERY OWN TEST that you make. This is why Proviron can be used as a bridge between cycles, or in a PCT. Provrion is the only compound that can be used by itself. And get the benefits of more floating test and a small estogen blocker.
"
Studies have shown proviron is effective for depression, anxiety and to boost lack of sex drive. Hence, it would make sense that those with bipolar, unipolar, and dysthymia would benefit from this hormone. It’s generally prescribed by doctors to men with low libido. In addition, it’s a precursor to full TRT (testosterone replacement therapy)."
http://www.evolutionary.org/proviron-mesterolone
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"two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2892728
I do understand the risk of increasing you Cholesterol. However, you should be on a proper diet before any AAS.
Adding things like oatmeal, even a little red wine.
Omega-3--supplements " According to research from Loma Linda University, replacing saturated fats with omega-3s like those found in salmon, sardines, and herring can raise good cholesterol as much as 4%. "
COCO powder in a study "cocoa powder had a 24% increase in HDL levels over 12 weeks, " published in AJCN
Never said i was saying replace Provrion as an AI. However, i have taken and still do take provrion year round on and off cycle. And for those individuals that are sensitivity to estor yes you will need an AI. I always use an an AI. However, if you a someone that is only use Adex @ lets say .25mg E3D you should really just switch to Provrion more benefits.
zewi, i dont have any problems with you posting your opinions. Everybody in MG, we always have discussions in the intent of knowledge sharing so we can all learn and improve. Be it AAS, supplements, life problems, you name it. But, we do it v respectfully and in a mature fashion. More importantly we understand that everybody is different, so we DONT MAKE BLANKET statements and leave them out for misinterpretation by innocent by-passers !!!
ok, YOU USE proviron, YOU DONT have sides. THATS YOU. Mention that in your post, and Dont generalize and say "if you run xxx T, you dont need AI". Its setting up people to get hurt! You dont see that?!?! You can say "When i Use xxxx T, i dont need AI. But its a general safe practice to have AI on hand just in case you need it".
Please be careful when you make statements like "you dont need AI." or "Use proviron instead", you DONT KNOW what the estro sensitivity of the person you're talking to, you dont know their cycle history, you dont know their tolerance levels, you dont know their medical conditions like pre-diabetic, kidney problems, liver problems,... If a estro sensitive guy reads this, he'll be like "ohhh, i dont need AI, great." Then next you know, he uses T and get gyno. Exercise more discretion and accuracy with the recommendations please. We are trying to help people here do the RIGHT THING and STAY ON THE SAFE SIDE of things.
and dont name-drop jewi, zowi, boowi, goowi, ... dont care. not like im going to look up your posts anyways.
Keep it coming gentleman ...!!! I love the education I get during these discussions..
On the subject of proviron, a few more details need to be touched on here , the first is after any prolonged use of proviron , you must ween yourself off or you can experience withdrawl , meaning i used prov for exteneded time and when prov was gone i got severly depressed and lack of energy ..so you must slowly d/c use also ,if your prone to any kind of high blood pressure prov may not be for you ..it is known to deffently raise pressure
Example i just recently upped my dose , a few days ago , and the last few days my bp.has been through the roof ,and im beating my brain here as to why !! And it dawned on me after rereading this artical that i upped my prov... and with it the bp went through roof ...so prov does and will cause sides ,
Proviron is a favorite of mine. I love the warm feeling and the vascularity it gives me. I know it raises BP but I don't have a problem with BP.
The problem I have with Provi is it makes my hair fall out. I will still use it but not more than 6 week. I am not introducing Finasteride either to block DHT. When I read Finasteride could leave you impotent, nope, not for me.
I hear you i love it ,but once my dose goes above 50 a day. The bp threw roof ...and when whats his name was still here, standing up , i remember telking him i was all sorts of fucked up after stopping prov ...and he sent me some and sure enough ...he was right ,you must ween off prov ...i guess all dont but ,i did and others i know ...i shave my head so ,hair falling out dont hurt me. ....
Its a real good antidepressent also ,ill have to pull up the studies but i love prov allaround. f
