Keeping Gains Through PCT While Cutting

[Guest]

I find myself in an interesting situation. My bulking cycle ended up turning into more of a recomp. The last 7 weeks of the cycle are now devotes to cutting bodyfat. Ive been all in with low carbs, an hour of cardio a day and training high volume (still heavy 8-15 rep range) and have dropped 30 pounds in 5.5 weeks, most of it bloat and fat (hardly any muscle). My goal is to lose another 13 pounds from today. My cycle ends May 31st followed by a 4 week standard PCT of Clomid and Nolva. July 4th weekend I plan on being off my diet, but with the potential to return to it afterward.

Ive been at 50 grams of protein per meal for 5.5 weeks and havent lost much muscle. My carbs are either 70 or 90 grams total each day. My plan is to gradually increase, beginning today, each meal by 5 grams of protein until I reach 75 grams of protein per meal for the first week of PCT. From there I'll drop down to 65 grams each meal and then 55 and finally back to 50 by the 4th week of PCT. My theory (and hope) is that consuming 375-450 grams of protein (5 or 6 whole meals) per day for that first week and then 325-390 the second week, etc while dropping my carbs even further and going into ketosis (by eating more beef) will allow me to continue burning body fat and (more importantly) preserving as much muscle as possible.

If anybody has any thoughts or ideas on this I'd love to figure out the best strategy to accomplish my goal with your help. Thank you.

 

[swolesam]

misterA - there's alot of dispute on the amount of proteins needed per day. But im sure you found your sweet spot which you mentioned above. I wouldnt go anywhere above 2g of protein per 1 lb of lean body mass. I think thats the point of diminishing returns - taxing your body to work on these nutrients while reaping not much of benefit.

As far as regimn, you can def try carb toggling which i tried lately and it works well. i think on the days i toggle off carbs, it sensitizes my insulin receptors, and the days i load carbs, i feel carbs are assimilated more efficiently in the body. So many ways to skin a cat.

 

[Mister A]

Thanks brother. Through the years Ive run the gauntlet of protein amounts. I've been up to 500 a day and I've also been down to .75 grams per pound of bodyweight. I actually thought the lower numbers were a sweet spot for awhile, but this last year I've put on 30 pounds of muscle and like being around 300 grams a day. It's not a struggle to eat at all like it used to be. It feels right. When I bulk I'll be hitting 400 minimum. So I don't think this is crazy to do for one week while cutting.

I think you're right about the cycling. I was doing it at first and always have gotten good results, but was getting better results from a strict low carb approach. Has to do with being at around 16% at the moment. I feel like there is plenty of fat to use as fuel without needing a refeed. But I think I can utilize a refeed day every 5 or 6 days and keep the rest of my days at zero carb. On the refeed day I can lower the protein to stay in a defecit. Doubting that Ill lose any significant amount of muscle by lowering protein for 24 hours, especially if total calories remain virtually the same. Those zero carb days would be tough, but very effective. And the refeed would give me a mental break Id gladly welcome. This is good stuff. Keep the ideas coming, guys.

 

[swolesam]

zero carb is impossible for me, feel sick as a dog by 3 pm.

On 0 carb days, that means no fiber either correct cause fiber IS a carb type. So these days you cant even have a celery stick these days?? Give me a sample meal or two from your zero carb days brother, i wana dig into this.

 

[Mister A]

My zero carb days include green, fibrous veggies. But I only have two servings and its half a cup of broccoli/brussel sprouts/spinach with my egg whites for breakfast. And the same serving in my post workout meal. The veggies aid in establishing more alkilinity. So after the catabolism (acidic) environment created by fasting in your sleep and again by training, these two times are the vital for vegetables in any kind of diet.

Other than that my zero carb days have always included fats. I usually put a tablespoon of coconut oil on every meal and it does a good job with energy. But in this case I would just do plain chicken and egg whites through the day. A lot of 212 guys have to (especially when it was a 202 class) do this in order to get down. They eat like 100 grams of protein from chicken breast per day and nothing else. Actively trying to burn muscle at that point.

Honestly at this point, being 237.8 this morning and eating 70-90 grams of carbs a day feels a lot like zero. But im starting to think about insulin now and maybe a post workout meal with 50 grams of carbs is necessary. If my goal is to prevent the breakdown of muscle tissue then I should be using insulin to do it when my body is breaking it down the most. Im just not sure if I should go fast or slow carbs for the 50 grams. Im leaning towards white rice.

 

[SharonKY]

This is an excellent discussion...following!!!

I have carb cycled and have learned that I am super carb sensitive and will bloat like a fish if I go overboard.  So I keep my carbs to under 80g per day. 

 

[swolesam]

exactly the info i was looking for. 'cause zero carbs really means less than 30g of carbs basically.

Post workout even on my toggle-off days, i throw in a banana and an apple or 2 bananas with protein shake with amino acids. That is plenty of insulin trigger for me (my body type and metabolism). Seems to kick things in gear without disrupting the fat burning process. If you're opting for a meal and not a shake PWO, then white rice, sweet potatoes, or anything that can digest and assimilate fast in your body, throw in some protein for slower steady digestion and steer clear of fat PWO. Steaks PWO dont work for me cause they contain fat and digest slow which are 2 things i try to steer clear of pwo.

Thanks for sharing brother. 

cheers!

 

[Mister A]

Yeah Ive seen legit keto diets that allow up to 50 grams of carbs daily. I could never get the keto sticks to turn purple on anything more than zero. Even if I ate veggies at every meal, I would never get a heavy ketone read out. My body is easily thrown out of ketosis which is what helped to conclude that it wasn't for me.

In the end I guess I'll just have to try it and see what happens. I'm pretty in tune with what's going on in my body and I'm totally in tune with what's going in it. So it's easy to make changes on the fly. The scale has been going down literally every day this cut other than the day after a cheat. Must be doing something right.

 

[Dolf]

Sam fructose type sugers are not good for the post workout insulin spike. It needs to be some type of glucose suger. Glucose gets immediately turned into glycogen and put to use whereas fructose type sugars have to be converted by the liver from fructose to glucose. Fructose sugar then generally get stored by the liver as glucose and saved for when the liver feels it needs to be released. White rice, or glucose sugar candies like gummy bears, pixi sticks, or bottle caps are excellent. 

 

[Mister A]

+1 for that brother. Theres a spillover effect since the liver can only hold so much glycogen, but by that point you're probably missing out on the insulin spike. And 2 bananas sounds like a lot. That's like 175 grams of carbs!

 

[swolesam]

hmmm, interesting point. At such a low amount of sugar, i wonder if the "form" of sugar makes a difference, you know what im saying.

I'll have to look into that. No harm in improving the routine my man! Thanks for the pointer.

 

[swolesam]

haha... i would say no to that. Bananas i get are chiquitas and they are small sized at best. So 2 of these put together is 1 normal size banana, which would be ~ 30g carbs or so.

 

[Mister A]

You are correct on that one. I dont know where I heard that from, but I always thought they were packed with sugar. Just looked up the nutrition facts and now Im trying to figure out how to get them in my diet lol

 

[SemperFi]

Just a thought....

If you are in ketosis, ketones do not need insulin to shuttle nutrients to muscle. Ketones are a far superior energy and nutrient source than any carbohydrate.

SEMPER FI

 

[Dolf]

Haha...I'm not smart enough to figure that out on my own. I got it from Dr. Jim Stoppani who's one of my most favorite minds when it comes to bodybuilding and nutrition. If you've never read any of his articles you ought to check him out.

 

[SemperFi]

Stoppani is crazy smart!

SEMPER FI

 

[Dolf]

When I get a chance to catch my breath from being overworked at work I'm gonna do some research on this. I've used the keto diet with great success before,  and is one of my favorite diets to cut. 

 

[Dolf]

How's your bloat going now? Did the macro tracker help you get everything under control? 

 

[SemperFi]

You can supplement ketosis also. No need to follow a strict ketosis diet to scheme ketone usage.

SEMPER FI

 

[Dolf]

Yea rux has me convinced to give it a try.