Understanding pct

milkin

Moderator


What is pct ?   Do I really need it ?   How does it work ?   How do I run PCT ?


This discussion will be based on these four questions since they are the most commonly asked. Many moons ago, pct was rarely thought about due to lack of knowledge and the availability of the associated compounds. But thanks to the internet and review sites, people are able to share their knowledge and experiences for others to educate themselves on this mandatory protocol.


What is PCT ? - PCT stands for post cycle therapy and to fully understand the logic behind it, we must first understand the definition of Homeostasis. Homoeostasis is a condition in the human body where balance is achieved. Our bodies are constantly looking for this balance and in an attempt to achieve it, certain signals are sent out to activate specific processes. These processes may include an increase/decrease in Testosterone production, an increase/decrease in estrogen levels, LH signals,  prolacion production as well as a host of other signals to achieve homeostasis. The human body is truly an incredibly well balanced, self maintaining marvel. For this discussion, we will be concentrating on what effects steroid cycles have on testosterone, estrogen, LH, and prolactin levels.


When steroids are taken, the increase in hormone levels causes our “Homeostatic levels” to increase beyond their normal range. In layman’s terms, and just to pick a few, we are elevating hormones like testosterone, DHT, and estrogen far beyond their normal ranges. Our bodies react to theses elevated hormone levels, and try to adapt to these conditions, by shutting down production. Again, our systems are constantly trying to achieve that “Homeostatic State” where everything is in balance so the elevated hormone level conditions are processed by shutting down natural production. So to summarize this paragraph, steroids shut down, or greatly decrees, your natural hormone production.( This is a general statement since each steroid’s “anabolic and androgenic rating” largely plays a role in the intensity of shutdown, but you should be able to understand what I am trying to explain here)


 Do I really need PCT ? Why yes you do, unless you want to keep your natural hormone production suppressed, loose your gains, and feel like crap. Worst case scenario you will be stuck on TRT for the remainder of your life poking yourself every week as a result of your negligence. With the exception of TRT, pct should be incorporated after every cycle to kick-start your natural hormone production. Over time you body, on its own, will attempt to recover but keep in mind that your gains will take most of the hit. A now suppressed hormone level cannot maintain that anti-catabolic state where protein loss from muscles is reduced. Bottom line is you will loose most of your gains. Now if you’re only going to be off-cycle for a short period of time, there’s no reason to stimulate your natural production since you will only be shutting it down again, this is called a bridge and is a totally different topic. If you re on TRT then you do not need pct with the exception of hcg which remains debatable. Everyone else needs PCT.


How does pct work ? Ok, so we have completed our cycle and our hormone levels are on a downward spiral. These muscle building hormones will soon leave our systems and we will have to rely solely on our own natural production to hold our gains that we have worked so hard for. Ideally we want our own natural production to step in and help carry the load but it has been suppressed as explained above. That’s where PCT comes in so let’s go over the most commonly used compounds.


Definition - A Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) is a class of compounds that act on the estrogen receptor.


How you cycled your steroids will play a role, but regardless of your steroid use your PCT plan will always include a SERM such as Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex) and Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid). Theses are the two most commonly used compounds for PCT and are your best options. It really doesn’t matter which SERM you choose, since both are designed to perform the same. Where the debate comes in is how to run SERMS since the most common practice is to run both nova and clomid together. However, implementing HCG for PCT is gaining popularity and many are starting to run it in a “Blast” fashion at cycle end. We shall leave this up for debate since the goal here is to familiarize you with the importance of running PCT. Different PCT protocols can be researched in our forums and cycle logs will provide you with member feedback as well as others implement PCT.


Definition - Human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) is a hormone that supports the normal development of an egg in a woman's ovary. It is sold as a peptide hormone that can be used to prime the body for the upcoming SERM therapy due to its LH mimicking effect. The use of HGC for PCT has become quite the debate recently and with that being said, we shall leave it up for debate. One should note that HCG abuse can be very dangerous as it is potentially damaging to your HPTA. If you use too much or for too long because your body may become dependent on the mimicked LH and therefore HGC blasting for PCT needs to be covered in a forum of its own. For this discussion, the use of HCG is for testicular non-responsiveness or atrophy which translates to keeping your testicles from shrinking due to lack of testosterone production. Remember, in a cycle, your HPTA is sending signals to shut down testosterone production because it senses an abundance of it in your system. (When using HCG during a cycle for atropy, you should discontinue it use 1 week before you start PCT)


How do I run PCT?  Now that you understand your options, you need to understand how to implement them.  This is where your actual steroid cycle will affect your post cycle therapy plan since compound half lives play a huge role in determining when to implement PCT.



  • If using large esters, you will begin SERM therapy approximately 14-18 days after your last injection.

  • If using short esters you will begin SERM therapy approximately 3 days after your last injection.


 In most cases, a good PCT plan will run for approximately 4 weeks and dosages are represented in this fashion: (Take notice that the weeks are represented by the / symbol and the numeric value is the daily dosage)


 Clomid 100/100/50/50  + Nova (Tamoxifen) 40/40/20/20


While some use these compounds independently, this is a standard PCT protocol and is the most commonly used. There are many different opinions, as well as compounds, on how and what to run for PCT. This write is to educate you on the importance of running a PCT protocol and does not dictate one in particular. The above compounds and dosages are the most commonly used based on general consensus and are presented as example protocols. As with all decisions pertaining to compound usage, do your research, listen to others feedback, ask questions, but for heavens sake make dam sure you understand what you are taking.


Aside from a good PCT, on cycle ancillaries should be used to combat steroid related sides. The PCT section of the forums will provide you with plenty of information on HCG, and aromatase inhibitors. 


And here is the Muscle Guru’s forum disclaimer 


Your experienced feedback is welcome so please help others understand the importance of running a proper pct protocol. Questions are welcome and no question shall receive criticism so ask what you want. Anyone criticizing any member’s questions will be rightfully reprimanded, and not banned if we are feeling generous. We are here to learn from each other and although opinions may differ, that’s what discussions forums are all about which is looking at topics from different angles. So if you disagree with another members comment, by all means state your reason why you have a different view on the topic of debate, but do so in a respectable manner. It’s not a pissing contest here, it’s a discussion! We pride ourselves on being a “Respectable Review Site” so we ask members respect others opinions.

 

Dolf

Moderator

I use nolva alone. 40/40/20/20 and maybe another week at 20 depending on how long my cycle was and how Im feeling. I tried clomid and it fucked with my vision. It seemed to blur my vision. Using both together was my best pct, and taking the Clomid at bedtime solved my vision issues. 

 

Ytown82

New member
Good read Milkin info like this is how I researched what to use and how to but I do have a question for you or anyone who would like to comment. I'm on a test cup 250mg twice a week. I do plan on taking the pct you mentioned however was also steered into taking aromasin on cycle to combat sides. My sides included a little oily skin, little acne and small gyno starting. I began the aromasin at first12.5  e3d however it was not combating my sides therefore I kicked it up to 12.5 ed. Here's where I'm at in the middle of a 16 week cycle. My acne and oily skin is under control. My right breast is still slightly tender however no mass inside it. However my left breast the mass has gotten a little bigger and is still tender. 1. Should I continue aromasin 12.5 ed? 2. If I continue at that rate I will run out of it. Basically I have two months of cycle left and enough aromasin at that rate for one month. So if I go to 12.5 every other day I'll have enough but will every other day still be good? 3. If I should stay at ed then I will run out of aromasin. In that case should I order more aromasin or use what I have till it runs out and then would an over the counter aromatose inhibitor be acceptable to use or not as effective? 


Thank you for any help or comments.
 

Standingup

New member

16 weeks is time for you to call it quits .  Keep running a low dose of aromasin throughout and the mass at the very least should subside . Id run 12.5 ED for 1 week, then back that down to 6.25 ed for 1 week and as you beging PCT drop it down further to 6.25 E3D.  if after pct you still have it you will have to use some letrozole 


   For some adex works better, for others asin does the trick. Then even with that finding your dose can be tricky .  And after all that I had one occurance where I was having a heck of a time w my estro. Well it turned out my source had not put asin in the bag as labeled but rather nolvadex and at a weak ass 40 % to boot. 

 

Ytown82

New member
I'm actually only 8 weeks in a 16 week cycle I'd like to continue because it would suck to quit after just 8 weeks. I'm just not sure how to run the aro for the rest of the cycle. Actually I think I'm probably at 9 weeks in going on 10. I started may 8 whatever the math is. I did read where someone said adex works better for gyno tho so I'm debating on ordering it but I'd hate to do an order for just adex. So do you think I should finish the next 5 weeks with 12.5 of aro ed or be fine going down to EOD? If I continue ed I'm gonna run out so I'd either need to order more or get an over the counter aromatose inhibitor but not sure if those work or not
 
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dolfanshan

Guest

If you run it ed you could make it a 12 week cycle instead of a 16 week cycle, or you could continue the aro ed and order adex. When the adex comes in switch over to that and see if it works better. I use adex and it works great for me personally. The most important thing is to not get bitch tits. If that means cutting your cycle short then so be it brother. You can always regroup and try it again at a later date.

 

Standingup

New member

Aromasin should be fine , its very potent stuff and it kills estro so theres no rebound.  Whatever you decide as a dose I would try to come up with an ED dose of AI.  And since you have quite a while left to cycle can you get a blood test ?   


  Also I didnt see , are you running a liquid, tablet ? Pharma or UGL ?   I always have two varieties of AI on hand and one is always pharma


   

 

Ytown82

New member
Goodpoint dolf. I just didn't want to place another order for one item but I guess that's better than the latter. Hopefully if I continue running aro everyday it subsides and its not an issue. BTW its a tablet pharma. Next cycle you think I should go with adex instead of aro? I've heard some people say that works better if you're prone to gyno.
 

Ytown82

New member
Btw I got blood work done a couple weeks ago and haven't heard from the doctors so I'm taking that as everythings in order. They usually only call if something is fucked up
 
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dolfanshan

Guest

In all honesty I've not tried aro. I use adex and it works great for me. If the aro didn't give the results you were looking for then I'd certainly give adex a try. Some of the other brothers on here will tell you that over seas ai and pct are hands down better than domestic.

 
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dolfanshan

Guest

I've got a decent size supply of adex but I will certainly give aro a go when it's gone.

 

Ytown82

New member
Hey Sig why you like aro better? You think adex is better for someone who is prone to gyno? Someone on here said that I think I'm just checking to see which one I should go with next cycle.
 

Pankration

New member

Milkin ,Sig, I keep logging in but it takes me back? I can't chat on any other forum. Anyway I've been asked or should I say aksed if I can recon another mish. China and Russia are planning something and I need to find out. Prepare for another 20yr war. Love you guys! 

 

Jedimax

New member

So then AI's should be used during a cycle and not PCT like SERMS? AI's such as aromasin, adex, and even letro? I don't have gyno but I think I'm gyno prone to be honest because 2 of my uncles on my dads side were awful. My father has it but not so bad as them. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've read Letro is the most potent thing to use to combat at gyno?

 
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