New and need advice

[csancheezy]

mental gymnastics about the reality/nature of what we are doing here but I will say the majority of people finding this site already have used gear, are looking for how to find their gear, or have a friend they are doing gear with who has then says check out MG. So are we (the members) fishing for people to come here to "push drugs" I don't think so. I'm sure not. So then the question is do we (the members)  encourage an environment where use of an illegal drug or drugs (90% of the time here its not just TRT info or advice) is promoted? I would say that is a definite Yes, but also that happens organically for the most part in a place where people already come to the car lot looking to buy a car..is that defeatist? Well maybe, but also it is just generally how things work. I came to this place originally bc I was already looking to try AAS and learn much more about them, I put forth the intention, the energy, the time/money etc etc. BUT..Could we do more to deter people from being involved in a lifestyle that has them partaking in a black market activity, yes, forsure. These questions also come back to general personal morality, SF you may have those convictions that another man may not quite have such strong things burning in his own conscience. Now is morality relative (well that's a much bigger topic then is needed IMO) lol...

Like you stated "our viewpoint is limited by our position on the matter" and that would obviously go for yours as well. These frameworks shape the arguments or stances we take and make. Now is the 'site' itself designed purposely to promote steroid use, yeah yeah it is, I mean it is literally a "steroid review site", so the question then is why are you (generally speaking) here?       My answer: To find honest reviews on sources bc I choose to partake, but I stayed for the people and MANY MANY MANY other topics that we discuss and learn about weekly.

 

[JARHEAD2]

My fa-cheezy with the A+++

 

[BobbyO190]

WOW Thanks for sharing guys. This is informative on multiple levels and quite fascinating. I can't believe the knowledge gained in a couple of days...wish University had been this quick, I would have had my masters in a year

Let me also as a newby comment on the 'pusher' thing. NOW WAY. I see only the exact opposite evidence! Look at me...a guy who wants to be better, stronger, healthier - feel younger     a  guy who has found a product that does all that but because the government frowns on the product there is very very little information about it. What little is out there is hard to come by and then I get lucky (sadly a little late but always better late than never) and here are people with first hand knowledge who are willing to share. Who are willing to advise - even if it hurts. This is NOT the way of a pusher. It is the way of an advisor, a counselor. So guys thank you and please don't beat yourselves up at all. ALL you are doing is serving and that is always good and in my lifes experience always paid back somehow! (Sure hope I encourage and offended no one). But that is just my opinion, what do I know. I am new!

Background out of respect: Age etc...has been given.  Excellent health....only surgeries were appendectomy in 1978 and hernia in 2001. Other than drying and ageing eyes that now require reading glasses no issues.  I enjoy beer and wine when I can but that's not too often. Never used drugs, never even tried marijuana. Rarely use anything harder than aspirin or ibuprofen. Take a multivitamin and vitamin E and C everyday. That's it. So no fears on drug use etc....  Reason for starting; to oversimplify. I spent the ages of 27-49 between 225-285lbs. Kids, life, building a company, stress, etc...very little exercise. Life slowed down and I felt like heck so I decided to lose weight and get in shape. Dropped 70lbs and got to 210 in a year. Started lifting again and having fun, needed Viagra. Decided to look into Testosteron replacement as my "T"  was low but the cost and quality seemed silly.  Had a friend who said 'use this I love it' and so I started injecting per my original listing.     I could go on but I feel kind of self indulgent at this point so hopefully this helps and wasn't too much info.

Now, can I ask a really dumb question?  And I KNOW it's stupid but keep in mind I am extremely ignorant.   Why ever go off cycle? Why not just supplement T for life?  My body is barely producing already. I am never having kids again anyway. Why not just pick a low maintenance dose and never go off cycle? Other than it could mean permanent damage to the testicles and the inability to ever produce T on my own again...so what?  Again, this is slightly overstated and I know it seems crazy but my experience is begin with knowledge of the extremes and you often develop the best ability to see the knowledge of the middle. So please forgive a putz his question but I would truly like to know the why.

Or are steroids only good for short intentional gains? Example: I want to drop 10lbs that are proving hard to lose and I want to maintain muscle mass...OR  I want to add 15lbs of muscle and can't get over the hump with just diet and exercise?  Thus one chooses an appropriate cycle and then pcr and it's all good. 
FYI: I have no problem with that, it's just not what I believed coming in (again, ingnorance). So I am curious.

PS: My goal, honestly...1) Keep feeling like this, I truly feel 30 years younger and it's awesome. 2) Keep recovering so much quicker from hard workouts...3) Have some help with losing weight and keeping it off.   After that, the bigger and stronger stuff is fun but not as important to me personally.

WHEW,,,i hope that wasn't too much. thanks for listening and for everything else!

 

[strong]

Bobby, Many people do use testosterone for life. (TRT)  Testosterone replacement therapy is for those whos Test levels are in the basement. They have no sex drive, could be depressed, some have felt like just ending their life. Trt is for life though..  That is something to talk about with an endocrinologist IMO.

I have been using AAS for 3 years now and have been very lucky tp PCT and recover every time. Every cycle  of Synthetic testosterone that you do is definitely affecting your ability to recover and produce natural Test. If you are in your 50's and feel lethargic, depressed, no sex drive etc. Then talk to an endo.  WE have a lot of guys here that are TRT and live a happy normal life. I wasn't sure of my stance on that until recently. I just took off 6 months from AAS use and had no bad side effects. I only still PCT with Nolvadex and clomid.  I had recent bloodwork done and it showed that my ALT and AST enzymes were back to normal... I have been lucky and try to constantly inform myself. We have guys here much smarter than me that teach me something new constantly... Stick around..

Why not use Test? That's for you and only you to decide. Do you have High Blood pressure? are you prone to anxiety? just some questions for you too look into...

 

[BobbyO190]

Thanks Strong.

No, I don't have anxiety or depression etc...

Curiosity, and only because I think it will help me to understand and to learn. Why use AAS at all? If the risk is so high and the off time so necessary with always the fear of permanent life threatening damage...what is the value? what is the gain?   I am truly asking to learn and in way mocking or discrediting!  Are the muscle gains and weight loss sustainable and the only way to get there to take these risk? Are the risk being overstated out of protection - better safe than sorry so to speak?

 

[strong]

I can only speak for me. I use AAS for the dominant feeling it provides me. I was always a strong kid who trained with weights since I was 13 years old. I was an excellent athlete and took tons of pride in it. albeit, I was a troubled young kid for many reasons and put myself in bad places. I ruined my athletic future with poor judgement that landed me in prison. I got out with a different outlook on life knowing I didn't want a life of crime and nonsense. I went right to work all day and night. I became fairly successful and only trained when I had time. I did a job that was so life consuming. When I really started working out again I just never had that same mentality or energy. Aguy I worked with was on AAS at the time and he looked so good and had all things working. He introduced me to steroids. That idiot gave me a bottle of test 400 and a bottle of tren with no guidance.. I decided to research instead of just pinning anything someone gave me. I cruised around the internet and found MG to be my best fit.  2 devoted members welcomed me in and were kind fellas. I did research myself and only confirmed with them if my research was what they were finding as an experienced member/user.  I had already been using 500 mgs of test that I got from someone else with a little info. to help me. I failed on my first cycle. I was way too fat and not in any shape. I shut it down, learned a lot and most of all found my discipline again. In short, AAS use has enabled me to have the focus, energy and restore my work ethic that I lost. It also boosted my sex life. I am currently 250 lbs and in good shape working back to great shape after a plethora of injuries and life changes.  As I type away here Bobby, I don't think I really have an answer for you. Everything in my life is just better with AAS use. I don't feel my life has ever been threatened or compromised from use. I am healthy and who doesn't want to feel like their 20 years old is the only answer I can come up with...

 

[BobbyO190]

Sounds similar to my goals and desires.

So let me ask you this then...and I am back to just being an eager novice. 

What is your year like?  To explain my question: It seems the average is a three month on and then three month off cycle/pct.  I know what to expect during the three months on but what is it like during your three months off (assuming correct application of pct)? 
Do you experience a large loss of energy and muscle mass and gain weight? 

Or does it stay pretty balanced? Like on a scale of 1-10 if on cycle is a 9 then off is a 7 or better and life before in contrast would have been a 5?  Or does it drop back to the normal 5 or below?

I am truly curious as to what to expect. It would help me a ton with planning future goals.

PS: PLEASE anyone answer this. I very much hope Strong replies but I truly welcome a full spectrum of insight on this subject, the more the merrier!

 

[Dont_trip]

the question you asked is only found through doing.Strong is not you I am not you nor is anyone else here so what some may scale a 3 Maybe a  5 to you. So the question your asking in essence is pointless. it's like being by a pool and asking everyone around you what the water feels like. You never know until you get in there and feel it.

 

[strong]

I've come to a conclusion on one thing. AAS use is very individualistic. What I experience does not mean you will experience the same thing on or off cycle.  For Me coming off cycle is not bad at all. I have responded very well to PCT and have kept a very positive attitude. My workout intensity doesn't change. My sex drive drops a lot for a month after my last pin. My dick can be a little shriveled but sex drive has come back and I feel great. I tend to lean out and feel great... I think you said you were 52. You need to decide before doing anything if you plan to see an endo. or just self medicate. You need to get your diet in order first and your workouts need to be serious. You need to commit to a lifestyle change.  I am currently on a 12 week cycle and will go off probably till September. I may do a winter bulk, I don't know. My goals in life have changed.  I guess most would say that you go right back to your Baseline # before usage. Not me, I feel and look so much better than I did prior to use. Its a constant chase in the pursuit to look and feel great with overall health in top priority... My answers will not be everyones answer.

Its this simple for me..... My wife takes an Excedrin Migraine pill when she has a bad headache and that works for her... It does nothing for me...  All I can say is if you think you are ready to try AAS usage then commit to a plan right now to get yourself in shape and diet properly. IMO, You must see results in your natty training and prove that you are committed.  There really is no 1 single answer to these questions...

 

[strong]

As I posted my reply DT cleared it up as well. You have to see. The only thing I can say is you better be in shape first. You do not use to get in shape..

 

[SemperFi]

I am not asking anyone to play mental gymnastics as HB puts it and I am certainly not passing judgment. I apologize if you feel I am trying to press my moral code off on to anyone else. I just know I will never again make a recommendation concerning steroid use to anyone that I have not looked in the eye.

If you have spent any amount of time on MG you have seen the members that have fallen out of the boat and at least one drowned. They were each a part of this community and I hold myself responsible and accountable for the advice that I provided to each and everyone of them. 

Make no doubt about it. Every recommendation and every piece of advice that is provided comes with consequences. Most of the time the consequences will be good but just one missed step and I could be causing great harm to another human being. I have done enough harm to others in my time and I am not going down that path another step. 

I have come the the conclusion that responsible steroid use is too serious of a matter to be handled on the internet.

Bobby- My sincere apology for highjacking your thread with a personal matter. Not cool!  

SEMPER FI

 

[Titanings]

Bobby I will never personally recommend you going on TRT for the rest of your life. That is not my place, and I would never condone it unless it was actually needed. If you have actually seen a doctor or specialist about it and they have done blood work and they advised you go on TRT, then the decision to do doctor prescribed or self prescribed TRT will fall completely on your shoulders. Now what I do know is that the amount you are taking right now (560mg a week) is NOT a TRT dosage, that is a cycle dosage. From what I have seen while reading (I am not on TRT myself) those dosages (TRT) fall more around the 100-200mg a week range if I remember correctly. Others who are actually on TRT can help you to make a more informed, and responsible decision on this matter if you did decide to self prescribe, but in the end the decision is ultimately yours so please do it wisely!

As far as off cycle compared to on cycle goes, you have already seen the differences. For me personally I started taking AAS because I was over 40, hitting the gym 5 times a week and hit a plateau. The muscle building, recovery, intensity of training, and drive just wasn't what it used to be when I lifted weights years ago, plus I have arthritis of the spine, herniated discs, lower lumbar problems, shoulder and knee joint problems and wanted to see if AAS would help me to live a better life with less pain. Because the last thing I want is to treat the symptoms with muscle relaxers and pain pills every day, or be sitting there with a bong or a bottle in hand every night. So I decided and tried out some gear.  First and foremost I figured out the stereo type of "just take steroids and you magically become a bodybuilder overnight" is pure bullshit. AAS is only part of the equation. Without proper diet and training your pretty much pissing away money. Second thing I figured out was that I had a better sense of well being, was less cranky and it took more to anger me, had more focus and drive, and it actually changed my thought process for the better. It also helped improve my life with less lower back pain by helping me to train those muscles and make them stronger. Now does that mean I encourage everyone to use AAS? No its still illegal and dangerous and most people don't need it. But ultimately that choice is on the individual. Now when I come off AAS and use a complete and proper PCT things do change. I no longer feel like I am 25, I don't have the same stamina and drive, I get cranky and angry quicker, my focus and drive are less, and my thought process is different. Now I do have to watch my diet more, and it is easier to put fat on and I do lose a minor bit of muscle but again all of this is to be expected because you no longer have tons of test flowing through your body like a tidal wave, and to think nothing would change is just ignorant. Now all of this is how it effects me, as far as you are concerned you may get some, all, or almost none of the same things, every person is different and reacts to things differently this is what makes us unique as individuals. So honestly none of us can truly tell you how it will affect you like DT said. But I do know that if your diet and training are improved and better than before then when you do come off your life will be better off simply as a result of that. Never underestimate diet and training!

And last but not least to answer some of your questions I refer to your exact statement you made above: Why use AAS at all? If the risk is so high and the off time so necessary with always the fear of permanent life threatening damage...what is the value? what is the gain?

 

 

[BobbyO190]

I want to thank Strong personally. It's not easy to share so much about oneself even anonymously. Very helpful.

Semper Fi...obviously you have  a great servants heart and provide good advice and insight and have been hugely helpful to many over the years so please feel encouraged to give you thoughts on this 'thread' ! I have learned a ton from you in a short time.

Titanings it took time to get there as it took time for me to even discover exactly what I wanted to ask but that was perfect for my questions. Thank you so much!!!

One last dumb question. What, to the best of anyones knowledge, is the long term harm of a continued "tidal wave" dosage? What is the expected damage of say a 500 to 1000 a week Test load, non stop/non off cycle?  I am sure someone here knows and I am not saying I plan to do it (already have the HCG and Nov and Clomid on the way) but I would like to know as such knowledge does help me make better long term plans. 

Thanks again for everything guys.

 

[Dont_trip]

a question that if it suits what you want to hear you are potentially gonna get the green light from one of us??? Look bud there are many avenues to find the answer to your question.i may get hate for this but I really don't care,these constant questions are becoming a spoon feeding marathon you have had many many members chime in and help and its gotten a little ridiculous with the last two questions.Go google that shit in a better phras that tidal wave dosage and see what YOU find.You recogniZed and acknowledged it was a dumb question in your first sentence yet asked it again. Some guys will say there is no stupid questions and I'm here to say yes there is and this is one of them

 

[siegmund]

agree. 

to a degree. ,,sorry had a emergency. 

 

[strong]

Bobby, I sent you a friend request. I see you have no baseline and don't even know where to start... I would be glad to help you stay as safe as possible in your quest... I'm a little dumbfounded at this point of your thread... You have been more than respectful and admit that you are clueless on the use of AAS.

Go to your profile and you will see I sent you a friend request...

 

[siegmund]

strong you are correct. , and my post above was saying i agree and yet disagree. ...  some questions need pm.  , there is such thing as spoon feeding. , then theres not.  then other questions better answered on forum.   for all to see. ...

your right bobby has been nothing but respectful. , and with this , and what i wanted to say aboive is sometimes send a pm.   my door is also open... and i pmed him that.    ....

there are major changes coming in the next few weeks i promise.    

 

[Dont_trip]

But at some point we have to identify and establish what is a senseless question and what is helpful and useful asking if he can run  a 500-1000mgfor life  a week cycle is not a useful question he is only trying to find 1 person to give the thumbs up and off he goes. To me personally those are games this thread has been above and beyond helpful to the original problem but there comes a time where you need to research on your own and comeback after a day or so of reading and bring your research to the table for all of us to help not ask question after question with self seeking undertones. Anyways my opinion hope that atleast explains my previous post

 

[trainhard5]

Im beginning to think you were an officer in the Corps. Id follow you into battle Semp

 

[Titanings]

Bobby at this point I am done. You asked reasonable questions at first and almost every single person gave you the same answer of get off the gear because you don't know what your doing and its dangerous for your health. Then I even gave you a step by step of how to do it with a PCT to minimalize any problems. So then you ventured out further with the possibility of never coming off and said:

Why not just pick a low maintenance dose and never go off cycle? Other than it could mean permanent damage to the testicles and the inability to ever produce T on my own again...so what?

So then I even one step further to explain how doing self prescribed TRT can be dangerous and you should never do it without blood work for PROOF of low test and seeing a doctor. Then you asked what it feels like coming off gear and got the exact answer you thought you would get. So now you have finally pushed for the one big question that you hope just one person will give you a thumbs up on:

What is the expected damage of say a 500 to 1000 a week Test load, non stop/non off cycle?

So to answer your question: COMPLETE AND TOTAL IT WILL KILL YOU!

And since you were hoping we would answer it so it would help you decide whether or not you wanted to do it as you explained in this comment:

but I would like to know as such knowledge does help me make better long term plans.

Now you know.

And now I will no longer be offering you any advice as your true intentions have been stated and made clear even though I 100% do not agree with them and guarantee it will kill you. Your being nice is appreciated, but in the end I can not and will not encourage this in any way, and I am done, and I hope everyone else will do the same.